Piracy from an author’s point of view

There are so many unfounded assumptions and biases in this article, I hardly know where to start. But I’ll stick to this one quote and let others take it from there. “Your average author is making less than ten percent of sales with self-publishing that they make with a publisher. ” The fact is that the “average author” these days can’t *get* a contract. Those that don’t know how much the traditional market has shrunk will spend years sending out queries, trying to find an agent and then waiting for that agent to try to find a publisher. In the meantime, they could be self-publishing and making some money. I deplore piracy. I would never read a pirated book. I know that when I self-publish, piracy is something I’ll have to learn to live with. But that isn’t a reason *not* to self-publish.

Another worthless rant with no evidence to support it whatsoever and doing nothing except regurgitate the standard fiction being spouted by the Publishing industry.
There is no evidence whatsoever that appearance of pirated copies online is reducing sales. There is no evidence that it is hurting authors one iota. When one pirator does his business he almost always uploads his copy to a few dozen or more sites. This appearance is no reflection on how many people download it. The download stats on torrent sites are completely made up. The whole thing is unreliable as any kind of guide or indicator on how many people actually download a file and use it.

He would be better off ditching this fiction and concentrate instead on getting DRM removed, getting rid of geographical restrictions and getting pricing to a far level. This will cut the legs from under 99% of pirating. The Music industry was found out in their lies about the farcical damage they were claiming for years. Now we can buy music for a more or less reasonable price online and only a tiny number of people torrent. When the Publishing industry does this they will see the light too.

“Your average author is making less than ten percent of sales with self-publishing that they make with a publisher”
This is hardly news is it. Self published authors are inevitably unfiltered, so any dick can self publish. Hence the ‘average’ will be drastically reduced in quality and sales. It’s not brain surgery.

I think my whole issue with all of these arguments is that I just don’t feel like a lot of ‘authors’ understand the real, business aspects of what they want to do. To start off with, I myself do not read pirated books and do not support that. But I also recognize that there is a reality these things happen. Every business has such realities, whether it’s shop-lifters or industrial espionage or whatever. It’s part of life. And the other reality is that not everyone is cut out for making a *living* doing something just because they might find it enjoyable or meaningful. If they have such a thin skin that they are going to give up over something that, while unfortunate, is a reality of the business world that every industry deals with, then maybe they are someone who would be better off treating this like a hobby and not like a bread and butter job. Most of the writers I know who do write for bread and butter don’t write only novels, they teach or they write for business or run seminars. My dad wrote a non-fiction book that sold 500 copies and his publisher was thrilled by the result. It had nothing to do with piracy, writing is just not that lucrative a ‘job’ for most people. It can be a fun hobby and a nice sideline if you’re good. But to assume you can support a family writing novels is just as foolish as assuming you can as a busker, or a painter or a basket weaver. Some people can. Many others cannot. And a great many others can, but they have to compromise in some way. As I said, this does not mean I condone piracy by any means. But nor does it mean that I truly believe a handful of pirates who probably would not have bought it anyway are going to be the difference between food and no food for most people.

Pirates are those who steal your work and resell it for a fee and keep 100% of the proceeds (as opposed to publishers who pay authors something). There are very very few pirates out there.

Then there are those who are “file sharing” your work, with or without DRM, who are not generating an income, however small: these are the folks we normally think of as pirates but in reality they are sharing.

I make this distinction because a “shared file” is very rarely a lost sale. some folks love to upload and download files and never actually do anything with the files: like reading them. These files that are moving about with no economic value lost to the content provider. Someone might be interested in Joe Jone’s Xcellent Saga and end up downloading all 13 novels. That someone might get around to reading one of them; that single title might be a lost sale, the other 12 are not.

File sharing needs to be discouraged but in most cases it has marketing value which far outweighs lost revenue. OTOH, websites which charge a fee for access to stolen property ought to be fined and snuffed out.

Catana, You are basing your argument on NY conglomerate. Remember that there are only 6 of those vs. hundreds of thousands of indies and SSVs in the world. That is not an exaggeration, BTW. Check the link to Parapublishing for more information. So, yes…there are a lot of authors getting contracts, but few are getting them from the NY conglomerates. Most are in indie press (which does necessitate a contract) or publishing themselves (which doesn’t). The idea that the average author can’t get a contract is a fallacy. Find the right press, and you can, if you treat this as a career.

Howard, How nice of you to chime in, though you are sadly misinformed. When I say that I find 1000s of copies in a month, that IS just the base file posted somewhere, not even looking at the number of “downloads” it says the file has, if the site is even showing such a thing.

But you’re also basing your complaints (as many pirates do) on NY conglomerate. Indie press rarely uses DRM. Unless the distribution site itself adds it, my books are not DRMd. Nor are they priced unfairly. Most of my ebook sell for $6 or less. I believe I have one that comes in at about 140,000 words and sells for $8 in ebook, but the trade paperback of it sells for $17. Even in mass market, that book would not be priced below $9…probably $10, from others I have the same length from conglomerate press. I also have no geographical restrictions. Indie books are typically sold worldwide from day one, as mine are. And, FWIW, if you knew anything about me, you’d know that I continuously tell NY conglomerate how they are screwing all of this up. I am about the most reasonable author you will find when it comes to subjects of accessibility and availability to readers. I also ran an independent pricing and DRM polling that shows indie pricing is what respondants want to see.

We’re not taling a handful of pirates here. That dismissive idea is half the problem. If you want some solid numbers here… There are more than 1.5 BILLION people on the Internet these days. We obviously can’t poll all of them, but a poll done by Verso this past year showed that over 28% of readers that own a handheld polled said they use illegal file sharing sites, and 6% have downloaded more than 10 titles in the last year that way. The survey also showed that such downloading is concentrated “disproportionately” among males aged 18-34, with 45% reporting engaing in illegal downloading and 13% downloading more than 10 titles in the last year. Now do the math on that. It’s a pretty stellar figure.

Beyond that…and this touches on Alexander’s argument as well… We DO see people reselling work illegally quite often. In fact, in a single month, I found 390 illegal sales of my books from a single site (a number not even tallied in the more than 1000 in a month quotation). The main pirate was not only claiming the titles were out of copyright (they aren’t) but also was claiming that she was selling resale rights, which creates a domino effect. In a three month period, a single group I belong to had to shut down more than two dozen such auctions and we still find them every week. Some of them contain well over 500 titles in a bundle, and it’s not unusual to find bundles of a single author with 20 or more titles in them.

I also don’t agree that file sharing sites do no harm. For the “habitual” pirate, no…it’s not going to change much of anything to shut them down. The habitual pirate isn’t going to purchase anything anyway. But the habitual pirate spreads misinformation to the type of pirates that really don’t know what the law says and what these sites do to authors’ sales, specifically from that type of pirate. I’ve created a list of 7 main types, and I fully believe a lot of them are the “don’t know type.” These pirates, love them (I really do)…love authors and would actually purchase books and not pirate, if they had the slightest inkling that there was a reason not to do it.

Joanna, It’s rather presumpuous to assume I know nothing about business. Sorry, but that’s what my actual degrees are in. I know every business has a certain amount of slippage. That’s the proper term for it, BTW. But this isn’t slippage. This is an epidemic.

I know very few authors who can depend on this as the day job without a working spouse bringing in the lion’s share of the money into the household. Personally, I work two paying jobs besides writing and have my husband bringing in most of the money. I make a decent amount writing…sporadic but decent, and my family depends on what I bring in. Darn right I’m going to do everything I can to protect that.

Should authors give up? Some have no choice but to. If the choice comes between spending time writing with no monetary return and working a job that brings money into the household…yes, it’s going to happen, in some cases. It has nothing to do with a thin skin. It has everything to do with putting food on the table for the kids, even if it’s supplementary income.

Brenna

I can only speak for myself, but I spend MUCH more money on ebooks since I started filesharing than I did before. Around three or four times as much a month, depending on how many good stories I read. I have discovered new authors and BOUGHT their entire backlists. What I don’t spend money on anymore is bad writing. And there is a lot of it in the romance genre I read – as every Myckael, Slayde and Jaymz jumps on the bandwagon – to the point that if all filesharing sites were shut down instantly tomorrow I would never go back to taking a chance on most new authors. I’d just stick with fanfiction, where there is a great deal of quality writing shared just for the sheer joy of it.

It’s interesting how the authors that I think write the best have little to nothing to say against file sharing on their blogs. It’s the lousy ones that probably *are* losing sales, because of piracy allowing folks to preview before they buy, that rant the loudest. I agree with Joanna – not everyone gets to be a successful writer just because they want it really badly. If piracy helps separate the wheat from the chaff then that’s a very good thing.

Brenna, I never said don’t protect it. I never said I condone piracy. I only said that a lot of writers who seem to whine the loudest about this (I did not say you specifically; I am speaking in general) reality of business seem to be doing so because they don’t realize it IS a business. It’s a little hard to feel sorry for someone who has to ‘give up’ writing to work a paying job when every single person in my life expect my retired mother HAS a paying job and works it. That’s life. A lot of them have passions they devote considerable attention to on the side, and some of them make money at it too—my cousin for example made a good little sideline for awhile as a professional jazz musician—and a few of them did decide that they could make it their life’s work. But the vast majority of them work the day job and have the passion on the side, be it writing or papier mache making or jazz gigs at the pub or whatever. The reality is, a lot of things people find creative and fulfilling and interesting do not pay the bills as a career. I don’t see why many writers seem to insist on being the special snowflakes here. If you do it because you love it and you make money, great for you. If you stop doing it because you you don’t love it, or you’re too busy to fit it in given your other life priorities (job, family, whatever) that’s your business too. But don’t expect ME to feel sorry.

Fwiw I did make the decision a few years ago that I could not stand the instability and financial insecurity of writing full-time, even commercially. So I have found a way to keep it as a hobby in my life and not reply on it for my bread and butter, and that’s a fine choice for me. I also know two people at work who do community theatre for fun to indulge their enjoyment of acting, but made the choice not to be pro at it in favour of something more stable (but again, they found a way to keep it in their lives). And of course, there is my cousin the jazz musician who teaches now and does gigs on the side. Life is full of such choices. Nobody is guaranteed an income doing solely what they love.

Brenna when you chose to correct me rather than simply disagree, it would be preferable if you do it effectively and from some authority.
I wrote “When one pirator does his business he almost always uploads his copy to a few dozen or more sites. This appearance is no reflection on how many people download it. The download stats on torrent sites are completely made up.”
To which you responded “Howard, How nice of you to chime in, though you are sadly misinformed. When I say that I find 1000s of copies in a month, that IS just the base file posted somewhere, not even looking at the number of “downloads” it says the file has, if the site is even showing such a thing.”

It seems to me that you are in fact reinforcing my assertion. It only takes a hundred or so pirators, world wide, to rack up several thousands of copies on line. And despite your lengthy and detailed post I found nowhere any evidence of loss of sales by you or other authors.
Basically it all adds up to an assumption based on circumstantial evidence and an additional substantial assumption that a downloaded file is a lost sale. It just doesn’t hold water.

In addition I might add that, as a regular member of the Teleread reading community, I feel quite free to ‘chime in’ on any and all discussions on this site without the need for an invitation, though I thank you for the warm welcome nonetheless.

I am impressed at your pragmatic attitude to the sales of your writings and wish you lots of success. If only the big Publishers approached the business with the same progressive policies. You are correct in pointing out that I, ‘like pirates’, base my complaints about DRM, regional restrictions and pricing on the major Publishers and not the ‘indies. But then my comments on the eBook publishing industry are usually aimed at those that sell most and let’s fact it they sell the vast majority of eBooks. So my comments remain valid. It is the misguided policies of the major publishers that drive much of the piracy in my opinion, for the very same reasons, and unfortunately the small publisher gets caught in the exhaust.

Like others I do not myself believe that writers give up writing because of loss of income due to piracy. I can however believe that the particularly gullible among them might end up giving up writing because of the wild and unfounded claims made by publishers about those losses. This appears to have become standard practice now in this industry, following the example of the Music Industry. It is about equally credible. It would be sad if those writers did give up, but there are silly people in every walk of life. I guess we will just have to soldier on with them.

Stephanie wrote: “I spend MUCH more money on ebooks since I started filesharing than I did before. Around three or four times as much a month, depending on how many good stories I read. I have discovered new authors and BOUGHT their entire backlists.”

I have an older friend/colleague who is like this also. He downloads heaps of illegal copies because he says he has no way of knowing which to books to buy outside the best sellers. But I know he reads few of them and always buys legit copies of ones he wants to fully read as well as following the author through his back list. This is not evidence of anything other than the fact that there are people who download quite large numbers of illegal copies where the downloads are not lost sales, quite the opposite.

Catana came up with a valid rebuttal; just cruise around 4shared and search the name of a well-known writer of thriller/horror novels, whose last name rhymes with ‘sing’. The download numbers are amazingly high… over 50,000 for one ONE title and someone has the gall to suggest that he is supposedly ‘protected’ by a publishing house?

Piracy had proven itself tenacious, self published or not. At least as self-published writers my husband and I keep 75% of each sale, and no contract.

As an aside, at least Brenna Lyons is doing something correct in getting her books sold. She offers books at very reasonable prices, in DRM free versions, and without geographical restrictions. As such, my wife has 6 of her e-books in her library purchased from fictionwise.

I personally know of authors who have lost contracts as a direct and explicit result of “piracy”.

If most authors do not speak up, it could be because they are –quite justifiably– concerned about the abuse that will be heaped upon them if they do. Reputation is important to an author who expects to write full time, as is the “appearance” of success. “Success breeds success.”

There seems to be an assumption that if an author complains, she is:
silly/stupid
wretchedly bad at her craft
a loser
mean
greedy

Moreover, many book-related, social networking sites allow members to “rate” books without having read them, based on friendship, rivalry, or downright vindictiveness. So, authors who speak out to deplore piracy see their star ratings for their books go down.

Other authors do not make time to deplore piracy because they have supportive publishers, and it is less of a distraction and less distressing simply to forward the information to the publishers’ legal departments.

You cannot assume that authors are cool with “sharing”, simply because only a few of us make the time to talk about this issue.

I take issue with the statement that there are very few pirates. Making money through copyright infringement appears to be big business.

If unauthorized electronic copies of authors’ works are used to attract business without permission or compensation to the copyright owner, I call that piracy.

Websites may not *sell* e-books, but they display e-book copyrighted covers and copyrighted blurbs, direct customers to where they can illegally download those e-books, and make money on paid advertising. If they did not show cover art, and “share” information on where to find copyright infringing (“freely available”) copies of these books, they would not have content on their sites, they would not have traffic, and they would not be paid for advertising space. Adbrite, Yahoo, and Google facilitate piracy.

Some of the sites that exploit authors charge a subscription, so readers may download copyright infringing works more quickly (before the authors find out and have the files deleted!)

Other sites charge membership fees and set themselves up as unofficial, paid libraries, which suggests to honest readers that they are legal libraries and that the authors are compensated. No. They are pirates.

There are pirates on all the auction sites. You might think that they are too “small time” to be worth mentioning, but when they sell more than ten copies of the entire works of certain authors every week of the year, it is easy to add up how much money the pirate has scored (Also how much PayPal has taken), and how many sales have been made without any compensation at all to the author.

If you wonder how one knows how many sales have been made, just click through to any iOffer vendor’s Feedback page. That will break out how many happy, unsuspecting customers were amazed and delighted to be able to purchase 100 novels by James Patterson for $20… (made up example, but representative).

Most pirate sites have Share This functionality, so even if download numbers are allegedly “made up” on the torrents, and by the scam Scrubbu links, who knows how many readers could see the links to the “free” books via Facebook and Twitter.

This analogy isn’t my own. Many internet users have the attitude that if any entertaining or informative work is on the internet, it ought to be free.

Or, I bought a Kindle, so all e-books ought to be free.

That’s like saying, I purchased a car, so gas ought to be free.

Howard, Yes, a few hundred pirates can add up to thousands of copies. I don’t deny it. I’ve demonstrated that a single uploader can add up to that number before, though dealing in that volume of “trades” often signifies a collector and not a reader. Heck, one uploader can add up to that many illegally selling books. Ask Rowena about the one illegal sale that had 500 books in a single item alone, and the same pirate had a dozen or so collections like it.

But, you are missing the scope of this. Go to any major pirate site, and you are likely to find more than a few hundred registered. On one minor site alone…small fish in this problem, there are more than a few thousand trading books…more than 5000 last time I checked. It’s much harder to track the larger torrents and such.

I chuckle at your assertion that you know for a fact that NY conglomerate sells more ebooks than indie does. You cannot know it for a fact. There is no single entity that tracks all ebook sales. Fictionwise, which is the distribution channel I sell best on, has had indie books as the bestselling of the year and NY conglomerates coming in lower on the list several times in recent memory. One year, it was Darrell Bain at #1 and a NY bestseller at #2. Bujold, perhaps? That sparks as right in my memory anyway.

Now, the fact is some people may believe the proposed NY Times ebook list will show all ebook sales and prove NY sells better in ebook, but it won’t. Depending on publisher, I may make as much as 60% of my sales from distribution channels, that may report to the NY Times list or not. Some of the smaller ones are probably under the NY Times’s radar. I’d hazard that maybe a half dozen of the dozen I deal with daily will be reporting, but all of them sell ebooks.

Beyond that, I know some indie publishers (mind you…40% of my ebook sales come from established indie publisher sites) that are resistant to the idea of reporting sales by title to anyone but the author, because they feel it will violate the author contract to do so. I’ve personally made a plea on the EPIC lists to authors and publishers to NOT let this go down like the “Show Me The Money” thing. If we don’t report sales to the major reporting sites, we can expect to be marginalized in the process. I have made a plea to let authors opt into reporting their sales figures to the NY Times list to show a MORE realistic picture of what’s happening. We still can’t guarantee that the Times will pick up all ebook sales. It’s highly unlikely that they will, even if an author opts in. Beyond the distribution channels they will miss (or that will refuse to provide the information), I’m not entirely certain how they propose to “verify” publisher site sales. If it’s too much work for the publisher, author opt in will mean nothing. Indies don’t have the staff to put someone on this.

B

Stephanie, It’s nice that you do purchase more, but I personally feel you are the exception to the rule that I deal with every day. There are exceptions to every rule.

But I will say this. I offer a dozen free reads. If you want to know if you like my style, read them all and ask me which books are LIKE the free reads you enjoyed. In fact, I load these free reads ON pirate sites, with the note that only the free reads should be passed. There’s no reason for someone to pirate works when an author goes this far to give them full reads to cut their teeth on.

Brenna

Mark! You are a dear. Thank your wife for me. And thank you.

To expand on something Rowena touched on, in addition to pirates that sell the books, there’s other “value based abuses” we see.

There are sites that use our ebooks as “free gifts” in order to sell some other product. They see the value and are using our works to sell their products. I find this as deplorable as the ones selling our works.

Likewise, pirate sites often make money from advertising by using their visitor count from illegal piracy to attract advertisers. Just because the ebooks themselves don’t have an illegal price tag on them, it doesn’t mean someone isn’t making money from the process of piracy.

B

The problem is that everyone’s arguing from their own point of view, with no real facts on the table. We don’t know how much, if anything, piracy affects book sales, just like we don’t know how piracy affected music sales. What we do know however is that piracy is here to stay, and that the only thing authors and publishers can realistically do is try to mitigate the major factors driving it: availability, price, regioning, format, and DRM. While it can be disheartening for an author to see that their work is being passed around for free, my advice is to simply ignore it – those numbers don’t translate into any usable information on lost sales or not. Focus instead on getting more real sales.

By all means go after people trying to sell your books for money though.

Frode,

You’re right that there is no way to tell how many pirates would have actually purchased books. They don’t give me a non-royalty report. But since I have personally interacted with pirates that really didn’t know the books they were buying or downloading were being offered illegally and became some of our best advocates and associates later, it’s safe to say there IS lost income from it. The subdivision of pirates that education will work on, given the chance to do so, are our lost sales. The dogged insistance of pirates that there is no lost income is ridiculous. But quantifying the number of true lost sales is admittedly impossible. I have never argued that. As Howard said, I am nothing if not pragmatic about the situation. Piracy is here to stay, but I will do what I can to slow it down and educate. In the end, with the current laws, that is all any author can do.

The idea that mitigating the driving forces will somehow stem piracy is very short-sighted. As I’ve already noted, most indies are already doing things the “smart” way. That doesn’t stop pirates from heisting our work as well. They justify their actions with how NY conglomerate does things, even though they are pirating everyone, not just conglomerate books.

I also dislike (pardon me for disliking it) the idea that people passing books for free on pirate sites are somehow fine but those selling them are not. They aren’t, and I’ve already said why that is, from several different viewpoints. There is a difference between people sharing an ebook with a few close friends in private email (which NO author would try to stem…not a sane one anyway, since it’s comparable to a library system and not overly dangerous in controlled sharing) and those posting them on pirate sites for thousands to download at a shot. There is never a proper excuse for mass piracy, paid or not.

B

Illegal file sharing of copyrighted material is just that…illegal. It’s stealing both from authors and publishing houses. It’s like me funneling a few minutes here, a few hours there from someone’s paycheck and justifying it by saying “Oh, they’ll never miss it.” Yeah, right! Writing is my JOB. If you download my books for free, you are stealing from my paycheck…and believe me, it’s not so big that I don’t notice. There is no argument that anyone can make that changes that. It’s theft. Please stay out of my pockets. I already have the government and my children in there!

Frode,
Publishers go out of business all the time. I suppose that is a fact. You could probably verify it. One example I can name is NBI (NovelbooksInc) which went out of business in 2004.

I had one e-book with them. I got my rights back. As it happens, I did not immediately attempt to sell or license the electronic rights to another publisher as I was fairly happy with the mass market paperback sales with another publisher.

NBI never paid me a penny in royalties on the sales of that e-book, and nor did the pirates who shared it. Nor did they pay an advance.

I don’t whinge about that. I simply point out that this is not uncommon. I know of an author whom I will not name, with another publisher (not NBI) who got her rights back. Another publisher was prepared to offer her a contract for those reverted rights. Then, they checked the pirate sites, noticed the download numbers, and withdrew their offer to publish.

It seems to me, it doesn’t really matter whether or not those download numbers were accurate. The fact that they existed cost my colleague a contract. Perhaps my colleague could have self-published the work, but the fact that piracy made it unmarketable to one of the few reputable, established publishers who was acquiring books in that genre at that time is…. not a matter of selfish opinion.

I cannot imagine how anyone would think authors think piracy is cool.

Imagine yourself going to work this morning, and the next and the next. For several months in fact, and you expect to get paid for your work. Yes, it IS work. And your boss says he really enjoys your work, and wants you to keep doing it – FREE. Would you LIKE that? Would you want to keep working for him endlessly for free? Okay, that questions really doesn’t require an answer. The answer is NO. Yet, that is what pirates think is OKAY?

They take money from people who use the money to pay the rent, pay mortgages, car payments, buy toys for their kids, pay for medicine, electric, heating and food.

Stealing is stealing, and that is happening to authors.

Tens of thousand of authors. Hundreds of thousands of books.

Your government doesn’t get income taxes for this lost amount. Your government doesn’t get corporate taxes from the lost millions. Your state government doesn’t get sales taxes from that. So guess, what? Piracy is hurting ALL of us!! Every time you hear a program being cut to help veterans, the elders, education, police and fire protection, consider WHY.

This is a no-brainer. No person is society should be denied the protection to earn a living.

Just because you buy an e-book reader, you don’t get to scarf up free reads. When you buy a car do you get free gas? Hardly. When you buy a computer do it get it with all the free software forever? Yeah, right.

Stop supporting people who are cheating authors and musicians from simple rights everyone else takes for granted. Stop robbing the government of taxes in a time when services are being cut left and right.

Piracy in any form is illegal. Once a work is copyrighted, any redistribution of said work without the expressed written consent of the copyright owner is prohibited and punishable by law. In any case, it does not matter the star power of the individual who’s work is involved, piracy is the act of committing a theft. And since you pointed out that ‘larger’ stars don’t seem to mind, it’s obvious you’ve forgotten that a group of hugely successful artists in the music industry took down an online site who ‘file shared’ their music, which infringed upon their copyright. This was a very public fight against piracy, which went to court and the owners of the copyright won. Piracy is not an industry standard way of doing business unless you’re a thief. I will be forwarding your information and article to the legal department for the publishers with whom I work. I’m sure they will find the information you provided interesting and place you on their list of ‘special’ individuals to watch for signs of piracy activity.

I apologize for the last section of my statement. I did not mean that I have any intentions of listing the author of the interesting piece on piracy as a pirate. Please disregard that point. It is not correct. I found her article interesting and it sparked anger over those who disregard the hard work and time that authors and artists spend creating their work. My mind frame was on the pirates and not the author. I sent it before re reading it and would have deleted the last section of the sentence if I had taken the proper time to edit.
Writing on one cup of coffee here. :0

For all you people who see nothing wrong with piracy, it seems to me that you are trying to get something for nothing. As someone said once, “There ain’t no free lunch.”
Someone has to pay. A library is usually supported by taxes and donations. As Brenda pointed out, used paperbacks can only be loaned to a small amount people. The person who pays in the case of piracy is both you and the author you make like but is not famous. Writing is a tough business. It is not easy to get published, even by the small press. Piracy makes it even tougher. You would be surprised how little the average published author makes in royalties. I don’t understand how some of you people can say that writers should work for nothing. Would you, in whatever line of work you pursue?

The idea isn’t to stop piracy – that’s just not going to be possible – it’s to reduce the cases of lost sales due to it. People pirating your books and selling them are direct lost sales – they’re people you can sue, since they actually have money. When you put them out of business, their customers are going to be looking for the books they “sold”, and some of them will be purchasing your legit editions. Simply suing and going after file sharers is a losing proposition however – you won’t get any significant amount of money out of the lawsuit, you’ll waste time, and you also won’t put a dent in the amount of pirated books or get more sales. Both file sharing and selling pirated content is equally wrong, but at least you can get something out of going after the sellers.

Educating your fans like you suggest is also a good idea, but I’m not quite sure how you’d do it in an effective way. One thing just struck me – you could talk about it in an author note at the end of a book I suppose. It’s not like the pirates would remove it :).

Rowena said:

“Another publisher was prepared to offer her a contract for those reverted rights. Then, they checked the pirate sites, noticed the download numbers, and withdrew their offer to publish.”

I think you can blame the publisher for that, not the pirates. They were the ones who chose to base their decision on download numbers, which as we all know mean very little. About the only thing you can glean from download figures is how popular/marketable a franchise is. It may seem counterintuitive, but in this case high numbers could actually be good thing – it means people know of the author and his/her books, and sales potentials are a lot higher. The number of lost sales will be higher of course, but in total the book would be worth more.

Not having the book available legit at all is definitely lost sales, and it’s even more of a piracy driver. It may be that publishers, agents and authors will have to switch to different revenue models to do it, but not offering content is a recipe for promoting piracy.

PS. I know publishers go out of business, but the NBI example isn’t really a good one for this discussion. The ebook market (piracy or otherwise) simply wasn’t a factor in 2004 – the market size was too small for anyone to realistically base their entire business model on it.

Whether or not a file sharer makes money, he/she is still a pirate. That person is stealing potential revenue from the author by giving the book away to hundreds of other people, some of whom might have purchased it if they didn’t have a free source. I focus a lot of my anger for file sharing on the sites that host the practice. Even when you point out to sites like Astatalk that they have a file sharing pirate on their site they don’t ban the pirate, they simply remove the book link. Then they hide behind the fact that they only host the pirate, they don’t support his/her piracy. Nice try. If you host the practice you support it and are therefore part of the problem. If these sites would ban the pirates the practice would dwindle considerably. Pirates depend on the anonymity of being part of sites like Astatalk. If they had to host their own piracy they would think twice before doing it.

I am an author with a small press and piracy is plain wrong, folks! Two of my books found their way onto sites. Piracy sucks! It cheats writers out of their due. Authors toil to write great stories and people want them for a price of a song. Well, maybe not since the music industry is getting its act together and getting the freeloaders who steal music. As far as the “I would never have read a new author unless I had gotten it through file sharing ” bull …please! Buy the book from a legit website if it intrigues you so much. Just tell the truth. You got a bootleg copy because it was free or costs next to nothing. And you didn’t want to spend real money on an unknown author. I still hope to make a living by writing but piracy will keep me in a day job to pay bills long past what I had planned.

Piracy is no different then shoplifting. or a person buying an item they know is stolen. That’s what is, thief. When we talk about loss of sales, people say that we can’t prove that all those people would buy the book. True. But with a few exception, pirates sell our work. That means it’s sold.

What the consumer doesn’t realize or refuses to admit is that the author who wrote the work has a right to receive payment for their work. I wonder if the pirate’s consumers get away without paying a garage for an oil change, the doctor for his exam, the restaurant/grocery store for their meal/food. I doubt it.

And before someone says it’s the same as selling a used paperback, I’m going say no it isn’t. Only the one copy of a book can be sold to one reader at a time and not resold except by that reader. In addition, mass-market paperbacks are designed to wear out after a specific number of readings—weak glue is used for the binding. That also limits the number of re-sales.

In contrast, pirates offer thousands of copies of a title. Only the publisher or legitimate bookstore can do this. So where does this leave the author and publisher, swirling down the drain. Where does this leave readers and lovers of books, without much choice or books to read.

The piracy issue is very simple. I’m not okay with people stealing from me. Are you?

Anne Kane

LOL! I’m sorry to laugh, but Frode… You have no concept who you’re talking to here. I’ve been epublished since 2002, with publishers that did in fact base their entire business model on ebooks and thrived doing it. My first three publishers are still running today, though they all do print as well as e NOW. Only one of them did print and e both when I started with them, and that was an older company that had been purchased by a new owner and had ebook added to an existing print line.

While most established indie/e publishers do eventually add print to the line-up, the early adopters started out as ebook only. And some of those early adopters from the 1992-1995 range are still standing and doing business today. There’s a great article on EPIC’s site about it…or was last time I checked.

Even today, Carina Press from Harlequin (which is running the great indie experiment right now…please support it! it might just show NY conglomerate that there is another way) started out ebook only, though I’ve heard just this month that they are adding audio and print to their lineup soon. There are also several other Harlequin lines, including Spice Briefs, that are ebook only. And that’s NY conglomerate. In indie, it’s not unheard of to find a newer epublisher doing ebook only for several years before deciding whether or not to add print.

In 2004, one of the two brothers that started Fictionwise (I can’t recall if it was Steve or Scott) was the keynote speaker at EPICon in OK City. I was in the crowd, and I could probably find out which, if I pulled my old binder out from that year. BACK THEN, he was talking about the losses to piracy, about how they break DRM, about which books they chose to or didn’t choose to pirate….

Back then, he was making comparisons that still hold true about the industry today, including reader reactions to pricing and DRM. Back in 2004, he was telling NY conglomerate (in their first, little publicized foray into ebooks) that DRM was a major issue for them, both in terms of piracy and customer satisfaction.

The actual quote from him was that, based on their numbers, “Secured/DRMd formats cause ten times the customer service inquires that unsecured do. A reader that has a problem with a single secured book is ten times less likely to purchase a secured book again.” Now mind you, these gents (having opened their doors in 2001) had the numbers to make such statements and back them up.

Piracy is admittedly a WORSE problem today than it was in 2004, because we have a lot of new readers coming into the market blind of the laws and getting misinformation. In many ways, I feel sorry for a new author trying to build an audience today, even compared to me building one in 2002-2003 range. But piracy did exist and was a major pain in the backside, even as far back as 2004.

Brenna

Tara,

No hard feelings. Everyone needs caffeine once in a while.

And no, I didn’t forget about the music industry at all. However, there are some very vocal bestselling authors that seem to forget that not every author has had the benefit of building their audience before piracy got quite as bad as it is today. When you’re selling two million copies, the piracy may not seem that pressing. I do contend that, over time, it will be felt in declining numbers of audience, unless there is a change made, even by these bestsellers that support piracy now.

And many of the pirate catch-phrases only hold true for NY conglomerate and some only for bestsellers or blockbusters.

I’m not sure who mentioned this one…may not have been you… But we do attempt to educate. A great little community called AWaY (Authors Without a Yacht) grew out of an anti-piracy group.

AHA! Yes, there is a reason for the yacht line. Grinning… The name of AWaY grew out of a pirate comment about how greedy authors don’t need another yacht. The truth is, most of us don’t own one and never will own one, realistically.

Back to the subject. Members of AWaY have done everything from answering questions on Yahoogroups and AWaY social sites to doing radio shows on the subject for both authors and readers to doing interviews with Copyright Alliance to educating senators. Heck, I have the very bad memories of trying to educate the FBI, back when they were in charge of piracy…before it became the property of Homeland Security and then the Justice Department. Much to my dismay, by the time I educated one office, it moved on.

But…sadly, education only works on a few pirates. Many of them don’t want to be educated. They want to get their books, no matter what. Shrug.

Brenna

Perhaps you’re right Brenna – it was possible to have a working business model at that time. If you are, that actually even makes it more likely that the reason NBI went under was not due to piracy, but due to other factors. Either way it’s not really something I’d use as an example.

Piracy may be worse today, but the number of paying customers is also appropriately much larger. There’s also a much larger global market potential than before, since you can sell ebooks to places where paper books would either not sell in large enough quantities, or it would be too expensive to produce and market.

I am not a “poorly published” author griping about piracy. I have been in the business for over 25 years. I still publish in print. I’ve gone to a great deal of trouble and expense to personally produce my backlist in electronic format for readers who are unable to buy my earlier books in print. I use DRM free formats and sell worldwide. And the instant I put a book on Amazon, it begins showing on pirate sites. So let’s not call piracy helping the poor or the disenfrachised. It’s theft, pure and simple, for whatever idiot reason anyone does it. Just because pirates can get away with piracy does not make it legal. And it doesn’t matter how many books are stolen or how frequently now because eventually, if it’s not stopped, the theft will only increase.

Writers are already being squeezed out of the industry by conditions the casual reader does not understand. The numbers of original books on bookstands now decreases daily because of these conditions. If readers want original fiction instead of ten-year-old bestsellers, then they need to recognize that writers need to eat, too. Because until we’re sure we can make a living at writing books, we won’t be producing a lot of good original fiction for the electronic markets, and the print markets are buying less and less.

Frode,

Yes, the market is larger. Everything is, but the global market existed back in 2002, as well. With my first book release, I started talking to readers in my audience that were in Pakistan, Germany, Portugal…and so forth. People were purchasing from publisher sites and Fictionwise worldwide. When Amazon came in, their initial throttling was due to their reader availability, but now Amazon, LSI, and other distribution channels are offering worldwide distribution, as the publisher sites and Fictionwise did originally. The pendulum swings.

Now, the main problem I see is that conglomerate press (save Harlequin…and they get it!) isn’t taking advantage of the global market as they could. While these distribution channels allow worldwide distribution, it is up to the publishers to choose it or not. Indie usually chooses it. Conglomerate often doesn’t.

They have a lot of reasons for it. Some make sense. Some admittedly don’t, to me personally anyway. You’ll hear a lot about how they want to protect their overseas market, and if we’re talking about translations, I see their point. If they are talking about English language books, I don’t see it. Yes, I have been accused of oversimplifying their problems, but this is how I see it…

Until a few years ago, conglomerate overseas deals (I mean English language ones) did not include ebook rights. That was a major change for them to start including them and caused quite the stir, at the time. Now that they have the ability to offer English language ebooks directly via distribution channels, they aren’t doing it, because now the rights are often bundled in the contracts their overseas partners have and expect to have signed. I find it amusing that conglomerate was willing to throw its bulk around with Amazon but not with other partners in this business. Simply put, there’s no reason to wait to exercise worldwide ebook rights in English language. None that I can see. I’d love an intelligent answer on that one, but no one is providing one past a dissmissive answer of “Well you don’t know their problems.”

At the risk of oversimplifying again, if the conglomerates wrote English language ebook worldwide rights into their contracts with some authors (those willing to try it) and did a test run, they might find it works to their advantage to do it widely. But NY turns on a railroad turnstyle and not a dime.

Brenna

I lost my husband of 43 years last year. At the time of his death I developed atrial fibrillation and suffered a mild stroke. As a result, I am not able to work outside the home. My writing is the only thing that helps to supplement the social security I now receive. When a pirate gives my work away, that hurts me in ways I hope she or he never has to experience. Correct that: yes I DO hope she or he has to know what it feels like. Every dollar counts to help me make it month to month. Having someone blithely take my work, copy it and give it away hundreds of times over is like me going to their house and stealing what they have worked to accumulate.

When you download an illegal copy you ARE a thief. You ARE committing an illegal act. You ARE nothing more than a run of the mill cheat. No, you are NOT exercising your right to free speech. You are exercising your ability to steal. You are infringing on MY rights. You are stealing from me and every author you copy. No matter how you try to justify it, it is wrong. It isn’t funny. It isn’t something to roll your eyes about or smirk at. It is a serious problem and you are doing nothing but perpetuating the problem.

Great discussion !!

Frode – you are so right. “We don’t know how much, if anything, piracy affects book sales, just like we don’t know how piracy affected music sales. What we do know however is that piracy is here to stay, and that the only thing authors and publishers can realistically do is try to mitigate the major factors driving it: availability, price, regioning, format, and DRM. ”
It is clear from the brilliant discussion here that there are many smaller publishers who are doing the right thing and that is encouraging. What they don’t realise is that globally they are at the margins of the market and in the eyes of the wider global public they are mostly invisible. It is the actions and marketing methods of the big 6 that is causing so much of the aggravation among the early eReader adopters and causing them to look to alternative sources for their eBooks. (No that is NOT me justifying it)

Where you are mistaken above is that in the Music industry there has never been a single independent research result that shows any significant loss of income to that industry while there have been a couple of good quality studies showing the opposite, such as Harvard Business School’s Oberholzer. The Music Industry has been on the decline, in sales terms, for decades. This is largely due to the increased competition for peoples money and time from all forms of computer games as well as other leisure activities.

Brenna wrote: “The idea that mitigating the driving forces will somehow stem piracy is very short-sighted.”
I disagree and the experience of the Music Industry supports my view. When legal downloading took off a few years ago after Apple launched iTunes and started charging a reasonable price, and when the rest of the industry followed suit, music sales surged enormously. Unfortunately for them the overall sales has continued to decline, but this is simply part of the modern trend of diversification in entertainment imho. Every industry has it’s day and the music industry has many many other competitors for people’s time and money.

Brenna: You refer to “NY conglomerate” when you replied to my comments on the Big Publishing industry. I have no idea what you mean but It would take some evidence to persuade not just me that Amazon and B&N and Apple et al do not sell the vast majority of global eBook titles online.
Personally I am delighted to hear that so many small publishers you know of are selling well. You talk about the reporting process being inadequate, which is unfortunate. However it is not so easy to create a reliable reporting process on sales numbers if there is no audit of the numbers. It is too easy for sellers to over report in order to boost their reputation and hype their titles. Does anyone really believe the numbers put out by Amazon on a regular basis ?

What I find frustrating about many of the posts above is the conceptual view of pirates and piracy. The people who run the torrent sites and other sites that host pirated copies are NOT the people that matter in this. They are no different to millions of other criminals who operate across the world. They make money driving hits to other sites on the whole. I find it endlessly amusing that people actually believe their site stats and those linked to their sites. There is a complete ring of fraud involved in all of these reporting systems that are created to make the visitor feel he is only one of millions and therefore downloading illegally is fine. I can only guess that people chose to believe them because it suits their argument. I cannot see any other excuse.

Anyway the people that really MATTER are the public who visit these sites and download files. I believe (no I have no research evidence) that the vast majority of them prefer to pay for legitimate and legal goods, given the chance. When the big players in the ebook industry start to give them that chance they will take it.
[In passing I would also say that the early adopting phase of the eBook there is a much higher proportion of geeky IT savvy people. This is common to a lot of electronic gadgetry. It is inevitable that this brings a higher awareness of the possibilities of torrenting etc.]

When eReading expands into the greater reading public in 2011 and 2012, millions of ordinary people with little knowledge of such things will be purchasing and reading eBooks. Unlike the crazy music loving teen kids who downloaded billions of tracks from torrent sites for the hell of it, these readers will be of a completely different profile and are far far less likely to be involved in this practice I am certain. I know quite a few people in my social circle who are thinking about and discussing ereaders but who are very reluctant because of what they have heard about the DRM and other problems. They don’t want to have to get involved in a lot of IT issues simply to own their ebooks. They want to be able to buy easily and keep what they buy for however long they themselves want, on whatever device they chose. When they get their wish they too will join the eReading public and have no interest in downloading illegal copies. Yes I know that they can already do this with many smaller indie style publishers but I suspect that non-IT literate new buyers of Kindles and other eReaders tend to look to Amazon et al first until they become a lot more aware of the wider market.

I am not a best selling author. I am struggling to make a name for myself in a difficult market. When I learned my book was being pirated, I was devastated. I’m barely making enough money to support myself and yet people are stealing from me.

Howard- you said that there is no proof that piracy is hurting anyone. Perhaps it doesn’t really seriously impact sales and revenue. But that is not the point. Pay attention: taking something that does not belong to you without payment is theft. Pure and simple. If you take an apple, a penny from a charity bowl, steal a hardcover book or download something that should be paid for you you are a thief.
We can’t stop you from stealing- lots of pirates out there- but if your morals allow you to steal then there is no hope for you as you try to justify you actions. Who is being hurt by your free download? The answer is you. You mother must be real proud of you.

***It’s interesting how the authors that I think write the best have little to nothing to say against file sharing on their blogs.***

Just because authors choose not to focus on this issue on the their blogs does NOT meant that they have nothing against file sharing/piracy. Simply put, I think most of us know that there’s no way to convince people who want to take our work for free not to do so (though I dearly wish I could show up at their job and refuse to pay under the same “if I like it, maybe I’ll pay next time” excuse).

“Jack” – I have no intention of tackling your insulting and abusive post.

I think it is unfortunate that a really useful and interesting discussion about the impact of piracy, and ways to tackle it, is being swamped by long hysterical and irrelevant rants accusing someone here of stealing their work. and reminding us ad nausea that piracy is illegal and bad and stealing etc etc etc. It contributes nothing and just destroys the value of the discussion. It is pitiful and unfortunate for the site.

The other day I read an interesting comment that focused on another issue but fits this topic perfectly as well. Let’s say you have a stadium and host athletic events for which you sell tickets and also operate concession stands. Of course you get paying customers coming in. But what if you also have to allow anyone who wants to just walk in to also come and watch and enjoy as much soda and hotdogs as they wish etc without paying a penny? Pretty soon the freeloaders far exceed those who pay. Are you going to stay in business? The answer is probably no.
Writers, musicians, actors etc are now in this same boat. We are struggling becasue too mamy people think they do not need to pay for our products. And think about it: entertainment is as much a product as food, clothes, your car, etc. You do not expect to get them for free but if something is on the internet you do? WHY???
I write because I love to write but if I cannot be paid for my efforts which are now my main work, I will stop. I am sure most other artists of various types feel the same way. If you want the supply of new music, literature, movies/video etc to decline until it dries up and no new works are produced, keep on stealing our efforts and swapping with firends, uploading to torrents and all the rest. Would YOU work if you did not get paid? Well, I won’t either.

I do not understand the argument that people who love their work should do it for free, or should not try (no guarantees) to make a living at it. Is this what we tell a farmer? a teacher? Hopefully, some of these people like their jobs. But they still deserve to be paid for doing them. I also don’t understand why writers, artists, musicians, photographers et al don’t deserve the protection of the law that others expect. No retailer could stay in business if they didn’t have the force of the law protecting their merchandise. Yes, they’ll still lose some due to theft. But if we said the govt. is not going to prosecute shoplifting ever again, then stores would quickly go out of business as their goods walked out the door without payment.

If we don’t have the protection of the law for all of us, soon we won’t have it for any of us. It’s a slippery slope to say some kinds of theft are okay because of this reason or that reason. When you enjoy the fruits of someone’s labor without paying them for it (unless they choose to give it to you), you are stealing from them. Whether it’s taking a pair of blue jeans from J Crew, a bucket of strawberries from the farmer’s field, or the story imagined, written down, and edited by a writer. That’s precisely why copyright laws were first written.

I think the goal of most of us is to educate people to understand that piracy is harmful to many people. No, we won’t stamp out all piracy. But it is not a victimless crime.

“Sharing”a book? I write books hoping readers will buy and read them if they like my writing. If what you mean by “sharing” doesn’t involve buying the book, then in effect no one is paying me to to read the book. Paying some else, maybe, who is now “sharing” the book for a price. I never minded finding my print books in used book stores when I was writing for New York publishers. Why not? Because the life of a paperback book is limited. Maybe four or five readers beside the one who originally bought it had a chance to read the book before it disintegrated, losing pages and the like. But now I write for electronic publishers and an ebook doesn’t deteriorate no matter how many hundreds of people read it. And I only get paid for the one copy the “sharer” is selling. Think about it. Authors need to eat and pay taxes /rent and have expenses. Most of us have families as well. So, no, “sharing” isn’t the same. What someone called “sharing” is actually the same as stealing money that should go to the author. Which is why it’s called piracy. Jane

I have nothing to add to this discussion except to support my fellow authors Brenna Lyons and Patrick Rice and Kalen Hughes and others who have eloquently argued against piracy. Piracy hurts authors across the board–it’s not a victimless crime–but more than that, it’s stealing, just as if you walked into a bookstore and took a physical book off the shelf and let without paying. I don’t have time to fight this growing problem by blogging about it or making it my primary cause, I handle it behind the scenes, but that doesn’t mean I don’t care or don’t think it’s a threat to my livelihood. I get google alerts daily about pirated copies, both free downloads and titles for sale illegally. It’s a growing and serious problem that as more people move to ereaders, authors and publishers–big and small–must address.

This author’s take on piracy makes a lot of sense to me: http://moirarogers.com/blog/archives/1814

Howard, you made this statement:

Anyway the people that really MATTER are the public who visit these sites and download files. I believe (no I have no research evidence) that the vast majority of them prefer to pay for legitimate and legal goods, given the chance.

As someone who has people requesting my works (not to sample or try me out but asking for an upload of my entire collection of works, including those they consider their “most wanted”) and have themselves listed as living in the US (which means they can purchase the books quite easily, via my publishers sites, Fictionwise, Amazon, and other retailers), I can assure you that while there may be those who prefer to pay, there are also those who do not. I’ve encountered the same thing dozens of times, on numerous pirating websites, as I send out DMCA upon DMCA to have them removed (only to have them replaced again within a matter of days or sometimes hours).

The question becomes — would they have paid for the works if it wasn’t being offered via a torrent or a filesharing site if given no other outlet to obtain the material? Sadly, we’ll never know. If you offer something that someone is requesting for free, people will certainly continue taking it. To be sure, it’s impossible to tell if it’s a sale(s) “lost.” However, it’s also impossible to state for a certainty that it isn’t.

I echo the comments of my fellow author above, and those of the other authors who have spoken out against ‘piracy’. As a very small fish in a huge ocean, I am published by a small press and my Royalties are laughable compared to authors published with Big Publishing houses. But – we all work very hard at our craft. We spend hours, weeks, months and years writing a book, reviising it, and then sending it out to publihsers. Then there are more edits etc. etc. Even authors who are selling well make very little in return, (most don’t even earn anything approaching the minimum living wage, myself included) but we carry on writing because we love it. We also love our readers and will, when we can, cheerfully write a short story to give our loyal fans for free. Just because we love what we do though, doesn’t give someone else the right to give our work away themselves, and deprive us of what little recompence we might have had for the hours we’ve put in.And those who run pirate sites are niot only guilty of copyright violation but of actual theft.

Howard said: I think it is unfortunate that a really useful and interesting discussion about the impact of piracy, and ways to tackle it, is being swamped by long hysterical and irrelevant rants accusing someone here of stealing their work. and reminding us ad nausea that piracy is illegal and bad and stealing etc etc etc. It contributes nothing and just destroys the value of the discussion. It is pitiful and unfortunate for the site.

What is pitiful and unfortunate is the fact that these issues HAVE to be addressed at all. People who have NO moral compass are the reason we have to discuss this. I know many authors who keep quiet on the subject because of harassment against themselves and their work.

Discussion on the subject are NOT working because so many of you out there just dont care that you are stealing from authors. “They can afford it” attitude chaps my buns. Most of us CANT afford it. “Where did (author name) go? They had some really great books but you just dont see them around much anymore.” Becuase theives looted their bank accounts and made it impossible for the author to continue in her career.

Someone said they want to see hard facts…Okay, want hard facts? You think a writer makes TONS of money? Do you want to know how much the average author makes off of ONE sale of ONE title?

About $1.80.

THAT is IF the book sells for 4.50!

$1.80…I couldnt buy lunch at McDonalds for that! AND that is only IF the book actually sold for 4.50! If it was put on sale at a lower cost, the author’s share of that 1.80 is cut even lower.

Now, you tell me…IS piracy hurting my income? DAMN right it is! But do the pirates and file sharing people REALLY care ? No. I dont think they care. They’ve proven it often enough by continuing to be PROUD of the fact they are ILLEGALLY filesharing.

You want authors to continue writing and giving you books to read? Stop and think about the fact that they earn about a buck eighty for each copy, and that they’ve had a single title pirated 50 times–there went this weeks groceries. There went the payment to the orthodontist for the kid’s braces, there went the payment on the electric bill. How long do you think an author can AFFORD to stay in business of writing quality books for you to enjoy?

But I guess we might as well be spitting into the wind. Illegal just doesnt matter to people like certain ones who have posted on this discussion and across the Internet on discussion boards just like this one.

When the day comes that an author can afford to hire an attorney, compile the actual names of the people who are illegally sharing their titles and sue the pirates in court for lost wages & copyright infringement, (and I beleive that time is getting closer than you think! I know of a case where one author was ABLE to find the names, home addresses and BUSINESS addresses of the pirates and is gearing up to take legal action!) and lets the pirate feel the lost income hit THEIR bank accounts, the theives will conitnue to strike.

I look forward to the day when this discussion is no longer warranted–but I know that realistically that day will never come. Theives will be theives and cheats will continue to search for ways to get something for nothing.

And yes I am prepared for the hate mail that my standing up for myself anf the rights of my fellow authors will incur.

Donica Covey

Jack, isn’t the entire point whether piracy is hurting the industry? I don’t think anyone here’s disagreeing about the moral and ethical issues with piracy, or even saying that it’s “okay to pirate”. Teleread isn’t a pro-piracy site, and never has been. Piracy is a fact of life however, and authors, agents and publishers have to find a way to deal with it in the best possible way.

While I think it’s admirable that so many of the authors here decided speak up on the issue, effectively “flooding” the comments and essentially saying the same thing is not conducive to a good discussion. 🙂 Instead of using the “stealing” argument, I would like to hear more about what goes on behind the scenes. You’re all in a unique position to explain exactly how piracy has affected your income and life – has advances disappeared and been replaced by straight performance based sales? Are you pressuring your agents and publishers to get titles out without DRM and region restrictions? In all ebook stores? Are they pressuring you? Have sales numbers gone down or up down lately? Are you spending more time promoting your books through social networks, websites etc? Have you considered new ways of promoting your content such as free giveaways of earlier books in a series etc.?

Piracy is and always has been stealing from another. I’m a published author and there is nothing else to call it. Not borrowing, just stealing.

I think the point isn’t whether piracy is “hurting” author or not, or even if we can’t do anything about it–I really enjoyed the post Rosa linked to because I agree with most of what Bree has to say. An author friend of mine calls piracy “whack-a-mole” because every time you stop one, two more pop up. That’s sadly true.

I can’t point to statistics as to whether piracy is hurting my career or not. There isn’t any reliable information on this. I despise pirates who profit from illegally selling my books. They’re making money off an illegal activity. Audio books are particularly vulnerable. Publishers and authors want books available for purchase everywhere–they want to sell books. That’s our business. Well my business is to write the books. I personally don’t like being pressured into marketing and social networking and all the stuff that ISN’T writing. When I first started (which wasn’t long ago–my first book came out in 2006) I never felt the pressure to do anything but have a website. I, personally, like chatting and stuff so I got involved with a group blog that started the month before my book came out. I like facebook, didn’t like (or use much) myspace. I tweet if I have something to say, but don’t spend a lot of time on it. I’ll admit, there is far more pressure now to be active on social networks than every before. If I’m using my creativity to tweet and blog and comment and all that, when am I going to write?

To me, personally, piracy is an annoyance and a frustration largely because I don’t know how it’s affected my sales. I know that my ebook sales are not as high as other authors also publishing in mass market. Because of piracy? Hell if I know.

Authors DO talk to our agents and publishers about geographical restrictions and other impediments to getting books available for purchase across the globe. But the truth is that the subject is far more complex–it’s not a matter of just signing away rights. Because I’m with a physical publisher, there are international publishing laws, there are publishing agreements my publisher has with foreign publishers, and a probably a bunch more that I don’t understand nor do I have the time to learn. I trust that my publisher wants to make money, thus I trust they are getting my books out in all markets they can get my book into. When I can push this because I think they can do more, I push. And yes, book sales have gone down across the board for most authors. Brick and mortar stores are ordering less AND selling less AND that reduction in physical book sales are not being made up with ebook sales book for book. (Now, big caveat here, all authors are different and have different sales experiences, and because of the economy, the changes in the industry, new authors vs established, midlist vs bestsellers, mass market vs hardcover, you can’t compare author to author. We all have different stories, no pun intended! 😉 . . . whether those are lost sales because of piracy, I can’t say with certainty. I know SOME are because I get email from readers who love my books and tell me where they got it–and I know it’s an illegal copy.

I really like Bree’s idea of iTunes for books, simple, easy, effective. I also think that people who complain about the cost of ebooks as justification for theft are wrongheaded. Producers can charge what they want. No one has to buy it if they don’ think the story is worth the price. I believe that ebooks should cost the same as print books minus the cost of paper and printing, which is roughly $1.50 for a mass market (the only format I know about.) If someone doesn’t feel the price is fair, they don’t have to purchase the book. They can borrow from a library or read something else. I have always supported libraries because we were broke growing up and libraries were the only place I could read books.

I, and others, stick to the argument that piracy is theft because it’s simple and true. Going into every other point every time the topic is brought up takes too much time away from writing. Which is what I’m going back to now.

I agree with Frode. Not only does the “stealing” argument stall discussion, but it doesn’t seem to be working against the piracy problem. Authors have been using this as their main approach all along and yet they claim piracy is increasing rapidly, so clearly this single tack isn’t addressing all of the root causes. What was it that Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? I’d love to know the answers to all the questions Frode asked, and see authors use that information in addition to the legal/moral aspect when they respond in any piracy discussion.

I am an author. My books are all available world-wide via the large outlets like Amazon, Fictionwise, or at the publishers websites. My books are all reasonably priced. They are not protected by DRM. I have readers all over the world…from Turkey to Sweden to Argentina. They all buy my books legally. There is no legitimate reason for anyone to go to a file sharing site and download my books.

I am fortunate that I found a career doing what I love that allows me to stay home and take care of my disabled daughter. Without writing, she’d be in a care facility being drugged into a stupor. The income from my books allows me to keep her at home in a safe, loving environment.

This is my art, but its also my job. I don’t like to work for free. When I do work for free, its voluntary and for charity.

Don’t you find it ironic that even the work I’ve done for charity has been pirated and up on file sharing sites? What’s even funnier is that some of my free promotional reads crop up for sale. How crass is that?

Piracy and file-sharing is not a victimless crime. What amazes me is the lack of ethics and the attitude of entitlement that I read from pirates and those who file share. Its pathetic.

Its a simple matter of right and wrong, not something that should even be subject to such extensive philosophical debate.

Allison – ooops, I was typing my second post as you were posting yours and hadn’t read yours yet, so I’d just like to say thank you for your informative response.

Frode,

While I didn’t ask the authors to come here and do this, I understand why they are doing it, and it’s heartwarming to me. Up above, a challenge was laid…a challenge that said authors don’t care about piracy, because they don’t speak out loudy against it in places the poster can see. Waving arms to the fray… Yeah, they do, when they are allowed to speak without sites like Asta removing their comments and banning their IP addresses. To be blunt, I think sites that show such a disregard and dismissal of copyright should be charged by the Justice Department for their part in the whole thing. Napster was named. Why not Asta?

I don’t know about anyone else here, but I am heartily trying to answer your questions, as best I can. It’s difficult to get through the thick bias that exists, though. The idea that piracy hurts no one, that it’s not widespread…and so on.

Okay, you want to know the stories? Settle in.

To answer one of your questions, everyone that knows me can tell you that I am a stark opponent of DRM, a proponent of worldwide marketplace and indie pricing, that I believe in full access to books legally purchased (text to speech, moving from one machine to another, backups, printing (if your needs of the moment need to you to print), changing text size, and even copying and pasting reasonable amounts for review/study or discussion), and I’m even reasonable about incidental sharing. Many authors won’t take those views, which means I sometimes clash with other authors over their “no sharing ever” views. I’m reasonable and I’m loud about it, so yes…I DO tell publishers when I feel something is not being done right.

To answer other questions…

Yes, advances in NY are dropping off, so much so that RWA has had to take a serious look at their old stance on them. In indie, we rarely get advances; if we do, they are $100 or little more and are a little perk to working with a bigger indie/e. In indie, you will find higher royalty rates than NY but that’s all authors get…no advance against those royalties. Oh, and keep in mind that (in indie) you’ll often find others working for royalty, besides authors. Sometimes, you will find editors, cover artists, formatters, and admin for the publishing house working for royalties. Lack of royalties hurts more than authors and publishers.

Wherever you publish, indie or NY, publishers expect authors to promote on social media, mailing lists, to have a web presence…and so forth. That doesn’t mean publishers do nothing for marketing, but aside from awarded books and bestsellers for them, they are promoting a LINE, not individual books. Yes, all marketing is cumulative, and even line marketing helps, but there’s nothing like the individual touch, and authors are seeing less of that across the boards.

That puts more stress on authors to be not only authors but also marketing people. In indie, we’re great about helping each other learn, but authors are not always social creatures…and it’s sometimes difficult to learn what you need before submitting. Why is that important? Not only is submitting closely related to marketing (blurb writing and so forth), many publishers (indie or conglomerate) expect authors to submit a marketing plan with the submission. Some of these young authors don’t know what is expected of them.

Indie authors don’t usually use agents. But, some of the NY authors have come from indie and know what they are doing when they reach there and when they have to tell agents what they want in contract. Kate Douglas refused to sign a contract in NY that wanted her to give up her indie work. Sherrilyn Kenyon (who many people DON’T know was with an indie/e back in 1993-94) was one of the first conglomerate authors to insist on her books being released in ebook.

Publishers choose the distribution channels that they feel will do the best for them. Some use many. Some use few. Some have no choice. I love Fictionwise, but sometimes they frustrate me. I have several publishers that have long since made the line for inclusion on FW, but they haven’t approved new publishers for more than a year. Fictionwise is my best distribution channel, but I have a ton of books that can’t go there, because FW is stalled. When I signed with these publishers, they had every intent of selling on FW, had the prerequisite numbers, and had filed the paperwork. The are adding other channels as they become available, but still no approval from FW.

I give free reads daily, and about twice a year, I engage in a free book giveaway on a site like All Romance eBooks…the first in a series for several days or a week. My first brush with doing this was back in…wow…2005, maybe? Fictionwise gave away the first book in a series for a week, with my permission and my publisher’s permission, ala the Baen Free Library model. The average title gave away 1577 copies in a week. Mine gave away 3008 in a week. Sales of all the titles in that series doubled and stayed there for quite a while. Hits on my site went through the roof and crashed my site twice in a week. I’ve never seen such a marked response from it again, but free reads do have merit, when handled correctly.

Now, mind you… There are differences I must point out. Not only did I CHOOSE to give the titles for free, which means it was my right (with the publishers’ agreement) to do it (and we both accepted the risks inherent in the venture), but it was done when I’d already built an audience. Like I said in my blog post, there is a big difference between being a new author with one book and being an established author with many. Small a fish as I am in the overall market, I would never suggest this course to someone with one or two books. By the time I did the FW giveaway, I was established with three or four publishing houses and at least seven or eight series worlds to choose from. That made me ideal for the test run.

But I will say that readers now EXPECT every author to do this, and not all of them can or want to. It would likely be more detrimental than helpful to a new enough author, unless he/she has some shorts hanging around that are ripe for the sacrifice.

B

Brenna’s points are very good, and just to add to the free reads–

My publisher gave away a copy of my debut novel to 1000 people who bought another of my book and sent in a form–the publisher sent the book and also paid for shipping it. They had another giveaway–buy one, get one free. (I don’t remember the details, but I believe they were promoting 3 or 4 authors with the program, so you could pick up one author and then pick another book in the program and got it free at purchase.) They’ve done a lot of giveaways for me and other authors, sometimes just cheaper priced books and sometimes free.

I have a free short story on my sevendeadlysinsbooks website that is bonus content, that I’m happy for anyone to link to or read — but if I find someone trying to sell it, I’ll be fighting that.

My publisher is selling an e-exclusive novella for all ereader formats (and pdf for computers) at a cheap price (I think $1.99–but don’t quote me on that, I’m not 100% sure.)

I love free reads from my favorite authors, short stories or novellas or a giveaway. Like Brenna says, this is our decision (or our publisher) to 1) give back to our readership a thank you for being readers and 2) gain new readers. I have given away over 2000 books at my own expense over the last couple years because I believe that the best way to gain readers is to hook them with a book.

But all of these are choices we make that are stymied by those who think everything should be free. I do support my family on my writing. I know a lot of other authors who can’t, or have two incomes (many families can’t support themselves on one-income, so it’s not unusual, but the writer’s income is essential to support the family as well.) I don’t want to go back to my day job, because there is no way I could write three books and a novella a year (which I have done for five years) if I were working full-time at another job. I can either be a full-time professional writer, or have another career. I can’t do both (though many do) largely because I also have five kids, all under 18, and motherhood is certainly a full-time job too!

Howard: “What they don’t realise is that globally they are at the margins of the market and in the eyes of the wider global public they are mostly invisible.”

It’s clear you speak for yourself here. I would hardly call the larger indie/es invisible.

“It is the actions and marketing methods of the big 6 that is causing so much of the aggravation among the early eReader adopters and causing them to look to alternative sources for their eBooks.”

That is one I’ve said myself. Then again, the big 6 views their distribution channels as their market…not their readers, and that’s lamentable. I don’t mean their authors do. I mean the publishing houses have been caught out saying that they don’t see the ultimate consumers as their market.

“When legal downloading took off a few years ago after Apple launched iTunes and started charging a reasonable price, and when the rest of the industry followed suit, music sales surged enormously.”

But we’re not there, Howard. Wake up. The NY conglomerates (or big 6, if you really prefer that term) aren’t playing by the established program, which is causing unrest. Keep in mind that many of the newer adopters opted in, based on what indie was doing, and they don’t accept conglomerate’s assertions that the market has to be their way. They know it doesn’t have to be, because they’ve heard what indie does.

And there are still plenty of people out there that pirate music and movies today, so it WON’T squelch piracy, which was what I said. Belief that it will is short-sighted.

Back to the current state of ebooks… To be blunt, if pirates were only pirating the companies that hacked them off, I’d have some kernal of hope that solving the problems in conglomerate would actually stem piracy. I can’t put those rose colored glasses on with a straight face.

“You refer to “NY conglomerate” when you replied to my comments on the Big Publishing industry. I have no idea what you mean but It would take some evidence to persuade not just me that Amazon and B&N and Apple et al do not sell the vast majority of global eBook titles online.”

You’re not being clear, Howard. While Amazon does have a self-publishing model (CreateSpace for print and DTP for ebooks), the people listed above by you are NOT publishers, per se. They are distribution channels, but your earlier post made it seem you were talking about publishers…not distribution channels. NY conglomerate refers to the big 6…which is a misnomer these days, since 4 of them aren’t even based on this continent. Grin…

Amazon is doing well for some people. It’s not nearly the highest of my distribution channels. It’s not even in the top three. But I stand by what I said earlier. From my experience, 60% of my sales comes from all my distribution channels put together (Amazon, B&N, Apple, ARe, etc.), and 40% comes from established indie/e publisher sites directly. If any site was close to being a majority in distribution channels, it would be Fictionwise. ARe close behind. Apple and B&N sell fairly well. Amazon rounds out my top 5. Just my experience, but I’ve been on Fictionwise since early in 2003 and Amazon since they started letting indies in, which was early in the game.

“You talk about the reporting process being inadequate, which is unfortunate. However it is not so easy to create a reliable reporting process on sales numbers if there is no audit of the numbers. It is too easy for sellers to over report in order to boost their reputation and hype their titles. Does anyone really believe the numbers put out by Amazon on a regular basis?”

Snort. Ah, but there’s the trick. Amazon rarely gives physical numbers and never in context to give you usable figures. Haven’t you figured that out? At the time they talked about ebooks outselling hard bound, there was a lot left out there. For instance, free reads were still shown on the sales lists for ebooks. Now, they have separate ones, but who is to say they aren’t lumping them together even now? No one. They aren’t saying.

Oh, and they aren’t saying at what prices the books sold…either hard bound or ebook, the numbers at different price levels, the numbers of titles involved, the highest number sold, the lowest, the mean, and so forth. The gross comment is useless without this type of data, and we’re not getting that data.

Beyond that… Talking to other authors, it seems Amazon is a small fish in the market of bound books of any sort. Several of my NY friends have said they make 5% or so of their paper book sales on Amazon. That’s not a lot, and Amazon sells a lot of hard bound books at a discount/loss leader. And hard bound sales are not the largest print market out there, of course. Mass market outsells it by quite a bit. So, you are taking one of the smallest print markets and comparing it to something that reportedly does well for Amazon…ebook sales. They aren’t MY highest distribution channel, but they work for some people, and their numbers are slowly rising. Even I see a slow rise in them.

But, and this is another important factoid for Frode… Amazon hobbles the indies in several ways. For one thing, they are one of the few distribution channels that won’t take free reads from authors and indies. The only free reads you’ll find there come from conglomerate, and YES…when they asked, I told them I felt that was missing. I have to send my readers SOMEWHERE for the free reads. If I send them to ARe, and they further decide to purchase books from ARe, it’s Amazon’s loss.

Beyond that, the 70% rate with Amazon sounds good, until they get into price wars with another distribution channel and sock the publisher and author for sales they choose to create. Also, at the 70% rate, they sock the publisher/author team for the download fees…and overcharge, IMO. With the bulk they use, there is no way it costs them as much as they claim, and then they turn around in articles and claim they suck up those charges. They do at the 35%, but then they are taking more in fees for a sale than any other distribution channel I use, so they can darned well afford it, IMO.

Oh, and of course…you can only get the 70%, if you are pricing between $2.99 and $9.99. Now, some people claim they are setting a $9.99 upper limit for an ebook. I don’t see it that way, though nonfiction books (text and resource, especially) should be exempt from this $9.99 top limit, IMO. The pricing on those are different than fiction titles, with good reason. But also, I’m hoping publishers with fiction titles will eventually see the results of pricing fiction novels in ebook so high. Shrug. That would make that argument a moot point.

From my perspective, I see them creating a lower limit on prices that the other distribution channels don’t adhere to. If a story for sale is a short story or novelette, I personally REFUSE to charge $2.99 for it, just to make 70% from Amazon, so I make 35% on shorter titles. Charging $2.99 for a short story would be cheating my reader, IMO. A short story rightly sells for $.99. Why Amazon would take it upon themselves to make that distinction is beyond me. Other distribution channels don’t do it. When I sell a short story for $.99 at ARe, I make the same percentage I do on higher-priced items.

“What I find frustrating about many of the posts above is the conceptual view of pirates and piracy. The people who run the torrent sites and other sites that host pirated copies are NOT the people that matter in this.”

I disagree. I can only assume you don’t have to deal with it which colors your perceptions. IMO, the real criminals are the ones uploading the books and the site owners that not only shelter them but also protect the pirates while helping to berate, block, and even threaten authors protecting their copyrights. Those downloading are a worry but not the most of my worry. Cut off their suppliers, and many of them would move on to something else, because it’s not in their makeup to upload themselves. The others…the site owners and uploaders that are so abusive and hurtful…and those selling the ebooks and those using the ebooks as a scam to rip off readers… Those are the real criminals, in my book. There’s no accounting for your beliefs, but you will never convince me you’re right.

“Non-IT literate new buyers of Kindles and other eReaders tend to look to Amazon et al first until they become a lot more aware of the wider market.”

Which is another facet of the education we do. Believe it or not, your average author wants the readers to have what you’re talking about…access, longevity, etc. That’s WHY I specifically try to teach readers to opt for purchasing non-DRMd books. If they own a Kindle, it’s not difficult to purchase non-DRMd books from Amazon or from somewhere else and convert them to be used on a Kindle. It’s not all that technologically advanced a process. Can they get the newest bestseller out of NY that way? Not right now, but with some well placed and pointed communications and a clear avoidance of DRMd books, it can be done.

Look, I’m all for people finding what they need. Just this week, I took time out of my day to tell a reader precisely where to get Angela Knight’s NY titles in ebook in the format she wanted, so she wouldn’t feel lost enough to consider pirating them to get them.

Brenna

Oh, Belinda. That makes me want to beat my head against a wall as well. I put my work in charity anthologies once or twice a year. When I see people pirating it, I want to scream. I’m sorry. What part of “I get nothing out of this and I’m donating it to help people.” is so very difficult to understand? How self-centered can people be?

Brenna

I agree with Donica 100%. Go ahead, call me all the names you want and make yourselves look petty. I’m not signing my name because image is important, just as others have pointed out. I’m already losing enough money to pirates without them having my name to run with ON PURPOSE. How much am I losing? Um, how about a car? That’s right, I’ve lost my car and almost lost my house, plus I’ve got a kid to put through school. There are no other “regular” jobs around where I live because of the poor economy. So, here I am trying to survive on a writer’s income. Could I do this if I weren’t being ripped off out the yin-yang? I think I could. I’ve spent hours compiling figures on my sales as well as figures from pirate sites that show the number of downloads. (I’m not sharing exact data because it’s none of anyone’s business what I make. But it isn’t much.) If even 1/3 of those people had actually purchased my books. Yeah, I could have made my car payment and then some. If someone were doing this to you (whoever you are in whatever profession) you’d be pissed off too. Why are people so surprised that authors are angry? Wouldn’t you be?

Thanks for your very informative comments, Brenna, as well as your original article. I don’t have any idea how many actual sales I’m losing, either, and I fortunately don’t need the money from royalties to live on. Still, it’s discouraging to contemplate the loss of potential income from months of work. The injustice of illegal “sharing” must be a real burden on authors who do depend on writing as a full-time career.

Brenna I respect your views and have no problem discussing it with you but please try not to be so patronising .. ? 🙂

“You’re not being clear, Howard. While Amazon does have a self-publishing model (CreateSpace for print and DTP for ebooks), the people listed above by you are NOT publishers, per se. They are distribution channels, but your earlier post made it seem you were talking about publishers…not distribution channels. NY conglomerate refers to the big 6…which is a misnomer these days, since 4 of them aren’t even based on this continent. Grin…”

You say I am not clear and inaccurate in my language (which admit and apologise for) yet you use terms like NY conglomerate ? I take NY is New York ? Is that correct ? And conglomerate doesn’t really mean anything to me in this context. Are you aware that this is a world wide site ? I am not in the USA and nor are many other contributors above… When I mentioned the big Publishers and the Big 6, and the fact that their sales are overwhelmingly larger than indies I was inaccurately meaning to refer to the big eRetailers. apols.

With respect to the visibility of indies I do believe I am correct. I believe most ordinary purchasers of Kindles and Nooks and other eReaders rarely see beyond the big eRetailers, until someone points them out or they become far more experienced.

I think it is unfortunate that you find it heartwarming when a valuable and interesting discussion is swamped by spamming writers. It just damages the discussion and turns people off. If that is what you want to achieve then so be it. I think it is completely counter productive and damaging the real interests of authors.

if you think that the way to reduce piracy is to launch campaigns against those who upload and run pirate sites then again I am sad to say you are misguided. Many if not most of these are not in the US or the EU and no law and no law enforcement or internet action will ever reduce them.

The truth that you seem unwilling to grasp is that it is the reading PUBLIC that matter. It is the reading public that you CAN influence and the wider community of authors and Publishers and eRetailers CAN influence. All this mindless and pointless ranting about the wrongs and immorality of piracy is a waste of space and time in this discussion. Joining together to develop strategies and solutions to persuade readers to read more and buy more legitimate copies of author’s works is what should really matter. It’s all very well to be overcome with the feeling that you (Authors in general) must vent and vent and vent. There comes a time when you have to stop wasting everyone’s time and get a grip on practical solutions. Discussions on teleread have regularly focussed on this subject and on the best way for this to be achieved. If authors decide to spam it on a regular basis then the site and it’s discussions will become unread, except by authors, and irrelevant.

It isn’t spam for people to share their opinions. If a bunch of pirates were on here sharing their opinions, would you still call it spam?

Some of my fellow authors have already done an excellent job of explaining how ebook piracy affects them. Here are my feelings about ebook piracy.

Ebook piracy is theft of the copyright holder’s revenue. It it THEFT and ILLEGAL. Pirates should be punished. I’m for tough punishments for those who steal ebooks. Maybe then people will think twice about stealing from authors who work hard to bring books to readers.

I realize some readers are just misinformed and think that sharing an ebook file with hundreds of friends is okay. Well, it’s not okay. Please don’t steal from authors and try to educate others about ebook piracy.

To ebook pirates: How would you feel about having your work income stolen? Have some consideration for other people. It’s wrong to steal.

To those people who said only the authors who write badly are complaining, my good reviews FAR out weigh the bad. My first two novels received 4 stars from RT Book Reviews magazine and one novel won finalist status in the Next Generation Indie Book Awards for Sci-Fi/Fantasy in 2008. Each of my books (except the most recent since it just came out) have received recommended read status from online review sites. AND, the people pirating my books recommend them highly to all of their pirating friends who then go and download my books ILLEGALLY.

Piracy is hurting my sales AND it’s hurting my inclination to write the sequels to the books already released.

What follows is the comment I posted on KPHO.com news site for the “AZ Author Loses Thousands To Online Pirates” article.

****
I have sent out so many DMCA complaints that I have lost count. I sent out five November 01st alone. For every DMCA complaint I send out, I also file an FBI internet crimes report so there is a record.

Gail is right. It is almost a full time job tracking these people. As soon as the file is taken down (and some of the file sharing sites take their sweet time about it), it is back up again almost the very next day. It depends on whether or not the pirate has to set up another account at another file sharing site because their old account was deleted due to the complaint.

What is worse, the people uploading the files have nerve enough to be angry at me for having it taken down. Like I am hurting them in some way. All they do is complain about how the time they took to upload all of those books to the file sharing site was wasted when all the files were deleted and the account was closed because the pirate violated their terms of usage.

I actually had one woman contact me gushing about how much she loved my book. She even asked when I would write a sequel. I had found out early that morning that she had uploaded my book to a file sharing site and then broadcasted the link on a known pirating bulletin board. I promptly reported her email and full name to the FBI when I filed my internet crimes report about her infringement.

Here is a huge fact the pirates (and most normal people) do not seem to understand — As an EBOOK author, my royalties are COMMISSION-based. I do not get some million dollar check once I sign the contract to have my book published. I wish. I get a percentage off of every copy sold. So when my publisher reports that I have ZERO sales for the month because people are downloading my books for free, I get ZERO royalties. That means NO MONEY. I do NOT get paid until someone buys something.

At this point, I am working for free. I would dearly love to see some of these pirates go do their 40-hour per week job and then have their boss turn around and say something like, “Thanks for the hard work but we won’t be paying you for thirty hours of the work you put in because we feel you won’t miss it. Keep up the good work and we’ll see you next week.” I am sure that would go over real well. They would be calling lawyers and newspapers and ready to sue.

For authors with publishing houses that do give out advances (sometimes that can be as little as $200 for a 300 page novel depending on the size of the publishing company), the author is in danger of not being contracted again for future books or possible sequels to the book the pirates are having so much fun sharing because the author’s book did not earn out the advance. In a capitalist world, that means the author is not selling, so stop wasting money on them and cut them loose. Contract terminated. Future books canceled.

Some of these pirates claim to be fans. That is the bold-faced lie they tell themselves and anyone else who will listen. Fans support the artist/author/athlete/whatever they are fanatical about so that person will do more and better.

Release day of a new book used to make me nervous because I did not know how my readers would react. I hoped for good reviews and high sales. Now I greet release days with a sense of dread. How long will it take the pirates to upload and share this book? Will I find the upload before it hurts my sales? My last release was up the very next day. Within one month (that was how long it took me to find it), the illegal downloads were more than three times the amount I sold. Some authors have their titles pirated the day of release.

There is an old adage that your dream job is one you would do for free. Being an author is my dream job. I would be writing even if I was not published. However, dream job or not, working for free should be MY choice. I choose not to. This is a career and a job. I have to put in long hours and answer to a higher authority who is investing in me. Like any other person who is trying to survive in a capitalist country, I want to be paid for my work.
****

That wasn’t satisfying enough, so I crafted a post for my BLOG. Yup. For those saying authors aren’t posting these things to their blog. I DID.

http://dreneebagby.blogspot.com/2010/11/update-17-november-mini-rant.html

And just as an aside, I recently met up with a NY Times Bestselling author who didn’t even know her books were being pirated. I happily informed her. She forwarded that information along to her agent, editor, and publisher. So it’s not that the bestsellers don’t care. Some of them just don’t know.

Howard: “You say I am not clear and inaccurate in my language (which admit and apologise for) yet you use terms like NY conglomerate ? I take NY is New York ? Is that correct ? And conglomerate doesn’t really mean anything to me in this context. Are you aware that this is a world wide site ?”

You don’t want me to be condescending, but then you prove you’re not in the industry…and get upset when I explain things to you from an industry standpoint, which ironically what other posters are asking me to do. Sigh. This is not a US vs. outside issue. It’s something people in the industry will recognize and you don’t. Authors and publishers I know from Europe and even Africa would recognize the term NY (yes that stands for New York) conglomerate.

As I said, the terminology is not accurate these days, because most of them aren’t located in the US anymore, but it’s a longstanding way to talk about the big 6 (which refers to publishers, not to distribution channels). And they are called NY conglomerates, because most of the started out headquartered in NY, though they aren’t there now, and they are huge conglomerates. IOW, they are corporations that routinely absorb other companies, are bought and sold, and are run by Boards of Directors instead of families, partnerships, or sole proprietors.

“With respect to the visibility of indies I do believe I am correct. I believe most ordinary purchasers of Kindles and Nooks and other eReaders rarely see beyond the big eRetailers, until someone points them out or they become far more experienced.”

Actually, I find that a lot of the people that own ereaders are early adopters that are trading equipment up. Are there are a lot of new readers? Yes, I already said so, but many of them are already coming in from online reader communities and are aware of the publishers in question from those forums. Some of them have already been reading on laptop computers or desktop computers. There were a couple of great pollings about what people use to read that were done in the last few years.

Back to the readers and what they know… Yes, readers tend to purchase from a couple of places and stick with them until they find out about new ones, but they also choose handhelds to match where they already buy. For instance, I routinely answer questions about which handheld readers they can still buy direct from X publisher and read the books on with the least amount of muss, fuss, and bother. Maybe that’s not the case at Teleread, but it is the case on Yahoogroups I frequent. Also, readers are very savvy about converting non-DRM book with Caliber. It has become an ereader’s best friend.

“If you think that the way to reduce piracy is to launch campaigns against those who upload and run pirate sites then again I am sad to say you are misguided.”

And we will never agree. Thanks for being so rude to me, BTW. You’re really making a lousy impression this way. But that’s what happens every time I disagree with you. You get nasty about it. Nice adult conversation you’re having.

“Joining together to develop strategies and solutions to persuade readers to read more and buy more legitimate copies of author’s works is what should really matter. Discussions on teleread have regularly focussed on this subject and on the best way for this to be achieved. If authors decide to spam it on a regular basis then the site and it’s discussions will become unread, except by authors, and irrelevant.”

Two things. First of all, if you were doing ANYTHING constructive, I might have some respect for your arguments. You’re not. Second, by posting my blog here, you invited me into the forum, and no…this isn’t my first time here. By insulting me, which you did from the first post on, you set up an adversarial relationship with me, one that I am trying to counter and find you doing nothing but ranting and insulting. Too bad. I am probably the author most likely to meet you halfway on any issue, and you want to argue with me.

Brenna

@Howard – “The truth that you seem unwilling to grasp is that it is the reading PUBLIC that matter.”

Actually this is a symbiotic relationship. Readers can make or break an author. But they do not have that power if the author does not write anything.

Look at the 2007-2008 writer’s strike. Several very promising programs that had high viewer ratings and a bright future were canceled because the writers stopped producing scripts. It all started because of money.

Stephanie Meyer stopped her Twilight series cold when someone leaked her book before it was finished. I have heard rumors that she might be diving back into the series once more but that is probably only because she got the paycheck from the movies. MONEY.

February 2010, Amazon removed from their site all buy buttons belonging to any Macmillan publishing (including imprints) books because of a squabble over… you guessed it… MONEY.

This is all about and will forever be about MONEY. We authors are providing a service of entertainment for which we would like to be paid. If I had received $0.05/word for my last novel, I would have gotten a nice paycheck of $8000 (160,000 word novel). I’ve barely made $500 in the six months since its release. How’s that for cold hard facts?

And let’s get one thing straight, these people who own the pirate sites are not doing this for free and out of the goodness of their hearts. According to Check Website Stats one of the major pirate sites many authors have issues with brings in an estimated $112/DAY with an over all website value of $104,338 and over 200,000 page views per day. So it is all about money for them too.

In comparison, my website has an overall value of $4000, a daily earning of $0 and about 15 page views per day. You tell me who is winning.

Thanks to Brenna and others who speak out for us authors and against piracy. Those who say “pirating a few books from an author doesn’t hurt” are WRONG. I am a small press author who makes very little royalties off my books. Every pirated book is a royalty (about 50 cents in most cases) that I do NOT earn. I’m unemployed and in poor health with no health insurance currently… I could have used the money from THOUSANDS of my books that were e-pirated through one pirate site alone (that I know of). These books were essentially stolen from me and my publishers. With those royalties I would have splurge on a few extravagances like food, medicines and a possible health insurance policy for me and my spouse. So, please, don’t feel that pirating books do not hurt authors–it does, and quite painfully at times.

I have put some of my writing up as free on e-zines, and even put an entire novel as a free download on Smashwords, hoping that would allow readers to decide if they think my style of writing is worth spending money on. My free book was picked up by other sites that host links to free reads, so I am guardedly hopeful. But I work hard to write my stories and I spend money I can’t afford trying to publicize my work, to increase sales. And I do work 2 jobs, and have family commitments as well. All God’s chilluns be busy, folks. So if you like my writing, throw me a bone and buy a book. Don’t steal it…that’s not flattery. That’s an insult.

Celine wrote “Every pirated book is a royalty (about 50 cents in most cases) that I do NOT earn. ”

What utter drivel. It’s no wonder some authors fail. A brain tends to be a prerequisite.

Renee :
“@Howard – “The truth that you seem unwilling to grasp is that it is the reading PUBLIC that matter.”
Actually this is a symbiotic relationship. Readers can make or break an author. But they do not have that power if the author does not write anything.”

Renee you don’t seem to have read my post at all, which doesn’t surprise me considering the amount of spam on this discussion.

I was responding to Brenna assertion that it is the Pirates that are the biggest worry for Authors in the matter of piracy. I was responding that imho it is the readers that are the biggest worry and not the pirates. I wrote “It is the reading public that you CAN influence and the wider community of authors and Publishers and eRetailers CAN influence”

Your post is completely irrelevant to my post and I don’t know why you chose to respond to it.

Howard,

I do not know you personally, so I can’t take your comments seriously at all. I also fail to see why insulting my intelligence (and authors intelligence in general) was called for in this instance. Normally name-calling wouldn’t be allowed on a moderated forum and your cruel comments would be struck.

Howard, I wish you a happy Thanksgiving and whatever other holidays you celebrate this time of the year. Enjoy them while you can–you never know when they’ll be your last. God bless, Celine.

Hi Brenna – you wrote:
“You don’t want me to be condescending, but then you prove you’re not in the industry… and get upset when I explain things to you from an industry standpoint, which ironically what other posters are asking me to do. Sigh.”

Brenna I am sure you have the best intentions and I am also sure we both want the same thing despite your misguided passion. You are 1000% right I am not in the industry. I have made that clear throughout the many many months I have been in discussions here.

My questions to you are a) Why are you assuming I am in the industry ? This is not an industry web site b) what is the point of discussing this topic endless within the industry when what is needed is a discussion of these topics with people outside the industry.
I am someone with 30 years of medium sized business financial management experience through many startups and in many industries. I come at this from many viewpoints. Other commentors here are also not in the industry. And the issue with the term NY Conglomerate is not just that it may be an insider term, but that it is an inaccurate term as it inherently infers only a US context.

I did read all of this thread (for my sins …) and I don’t recall anyone asking you to speak in industry terms … but I guess I may have missed it. Also … it was patronising that I objected to not condescending … though now you have clearly bypassed condescending and gone straight to insults. Good luck with the campaign against torrent and pirate sites. Most are located in countries outside the reach of any US or European law enforcement so you can waste all the time you like but you won’t have any success. Time you could be using more constructively. and by the way just to be accurate I did not post your blog here nor did I invite you here. I am simply a visitor to Teleread who is interested in ePublishing, the financials and technological aspects and who wants authors to earn their dues.

“I would dearly love to see some of these pirates go do their 40-hour per week job and then have their boss turn around and say something like, “Thanks for the hard work but we won’t be paying you for thirty hours of the work you put in because we feel you won’t miss it. Keep up the good work and we’ll see you next week.” I am sure that would go over real well. They would be calling lawyers and newspapers and ready to sue.”

This thought was well put in the article quoted by Renee. I guess for some people this would be called “authors earning their dues”. Funny how those trite words tend to come from people who have never written a book in their entire life.

And only men without courage and honor insult others, Howard. You think you’re a big man because you can do this with the anonymity of the internet to protect you. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

To authors (not necessarily those in this thread):
I have to say I am sorry. I am sorry no one wants to buy your books. It’s a shame, however ranting piracy makes you sound like a crazy person. It’s not attractive and certianly doens’t make me want to check out your books.

I would suggest that instead you try to be positive. Focus on your fans, your true fans (you know the ones that actually pay) and build a following. You will have more success and probably lead a happier life in general.
Thanks!

Whenever apologists for those who infringe copyright produce their arguments, sooner or later they cite a professor, doctor, or some institution of higher learning.

The trouble with these folks is that they are not experts in piracy or e-publishing. They are not qualified to opine upon e-book piracy, in my opinion. They live by a different set of rules. They enjoy an educational exemption.

Do you know that, courtesy of the Chafee Amendment to the DMCA, it is legal for a member of the public who claims to be a volunteer worker working with –say– persons with reading disabilities to take any paperback that takes her fancy and –without asking permission of the copyright owner– to scan that paperback and transform it into an e-book, or large print book, audio book, or other format, and to share it with all of those with whom she works?

It’s lawful, but there should be other ways to make entertainment available to disadvantaged members of society, without saying that piracy is all right if this group does it, but not if that group does it.

I try to focus on my fans–but when I discovered a “winner” of a free e-book given away by my publisher ended up at a pirate site only to be given away for free, it makes it difficult to know who is a “fan” and who is simply a “pirate”.

Very interesting info on the Chafee Amendment, Rowena. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Really? Now your going after blind people? Do you realize how you sound? You really want to go after one of the good provisions of the DMCA, one that allows organizations that “are governmental or nonprofit organizations whose primary mission is to provide copyrighted works in specialized formats to blind or disabled people.” Really? They are the “bad guys”?

I am being sarcastic and hyperbolic on purpose. I want to point out how these rants sound. Every time I see an author rant about copyright or piracy they end up sounding like some crazy person, and usually it turns me off to the point where I stop buying their work. I don’t think they or you are actually crazy. I think, like the original poster mentioned, that they are reacting with hurt feelings.

It sucks to see someone download your work without paying for it. I completely understand that. The unfortunate truth is that if they had to pay for it, they wouldn’t download it. Or they are just looking for a way to enjoy your work in a particular format that is not available (usually they buy a copy and then download it as well).

When someone downloads your work for free you are not losing a sale, but you might gain a fan. People offering your work for sale without your approval is another thing. That actually is a copyright violation, and you should go after them. I would suggest however that you should leave your fans and potential fans alone. We have seen what happens when you start going after your fans.

Here is a fact: stealing is a crime.
Here is another fact: I don’t condone stealing.
You can call it piracy. You can call it stealing. I don’t care which terminology a person elects to use. It’s wrong. It’s illegal when you’re talking about physical property and it’s illegal in rights management cases, whether you think the person “deserves” to have their property/rights stolen or not.

I’ve heard arguments that because books are priced “too high,” or because authors are doing something creative instead of something necessary for the survival of society, the big publishing houses (and authors) are getting what they deserve by getting gouged by piracy problems. This boggles my mind. I can’t imagine the local law enforcement agency would smile and tell me I’m justified in my thinking if I started grabbing luxury cars and fancy boats here in Cape Coral, Florida, because I think they’re priced too high for me to afford otherwise. I had to take the oh-so-common pay reduction in my day job so buying a fancy BMW isn’t in the cards right now. But…but…but I WANT it and it’s just not FAIR that I can’t have what I want right this very screaming instant so I’ll just go take it off the lot because the greedy bastids who make the cars are making too much money anyway. Screw them! And then I’ll have the fancy car I rightly deserve.

Right?
Hopefully we all agree that’s wrong.
It’s stealing. And how did this note begin? That’s right. Stealing is a crime.
From Sandy Lender

By the way, I don’t really want a BMW. It’s just an example. 🙂

Try getting a plumber to reduce his price because you think he’s too expensive. Try getting your accountant to turn into work everyday for free. Try telling the supermarket that you can’t pay for your groceries because they’re making enough money without his contribution.

Authors have to eat, too.

Liz, the comparisons you are making are ridiculous. Writers are not the same thing as plumbers or grocery store owners. It’s like comparing a pick-up truck with a feather boa. Not the same thing.

I don’t condone piracy, but nor do I condone this idea that an author should be able to feed their family just on the writing, because I know what a tough business it is and I know that like most creative endeavours, most of them will need a day job too and such is life. I do not feel any more sorry for authors in this regard than I do for anyone else, myself included, who has to balance their lives to fit in their passions and their families and their day jobs.

If you want to talk about piracy being a retail loss for you and how you as a business person works to prevent that retail loss just as any business would, then fine. But this whole ‘authors have to eat too’ argument wears really thin and just smacks of amateur hour to me. I would never buy anything from an author who is going on about that sort of thing.

Piracy is more of a problem for books with big marketing budgets than ones without. Stephen King has to worry about it; Joe Author does not.

The strategy to combat piracy is to offer the book at a “chump change” price than a profit-maximizing price. You have to create a desire for the reader to support you. Selling an ebook at 10 or 12 dollars is not an exactly a strategy for doing this. I guarantee you: there is more piracy for ebooks selling at $12 than for $2.

Add my voice to the many authors discouraged by piracy.

I used to love epublishing. I had fewer restrictions on what I could write and how I wrote it because epubs weren’t out hundreds of thousands of dollars if a new voice, genre, or storyline didn’t sell–and I’ve broken the “writing rules” a number of times to my readers’ delight. Traditional NY publishers wouldn’t touch my more creative stuff.

I finally had to go the traditional publishing route anyway, just to be sure I’d get paid in the form of an advance. I don’t know if readers realize epubs don’t pay their authors anything but a precentage of the sales. If an author has no sales, they recieve no paycheck.

Normally, I don’t discuss money, but I think it’s important to demonstrate what we’re saying.

My 1st check from the oldest and largest epub in the world for a release month was $1,800. Remember, I was a complete unknown then, My lastest release paid me a mere $100 from the same publisher. My fan base continues to grow (as does theirs) so how could this be happening? The only explanation is piracy. You may question my publisher’s ethics, but I doubt they could stay in business for 10 years if they were skimming. One of their 400+ authors would request an audit.

I can’t survive on what I earn by writing. No one could. What upsets me most is that loads of pirates can afford to pay their bills and buy books too. A lot of them are in high tech and just do it because they can.

I’ve thought about quitting more than once. I’d certainly make more money with a “real Job,” but where would the world be if we all decided to do that? Unemployment would grow and new reading material would evaporate. Think about it.

Ashlyn Chase

Couple thoughts….

Fact: Downloading copyrighted material without the copyright holders permission is not stealing, actually it isn’t even piracy, and it’s also not a crime.

Have you ever heard of someone being put in jail for downloading copyrighted material? No, you haven’t.

Actually, have you ever heard of the RIAA or MPAA suing anyone for downloading copyrighted material? You probably think you have heard about the latter, but you didn’t. You heard about someone being sued for sharing AKA distributing, not downloading. You know that part that’s actually against the law.

Just thought I would throw some reality out there.

Also another unfortunate dose of reality. If you can’t survive as an author maybe you need to reconsider your writing career.

I don’t want to be harsh, or mean. I really don’t want to attack someone personally, I am sure you are all very nice people. But really? Your publisher and those other 400 authors are able to stay in business and make a living, but somehow you can’t and it’s all piracy’s fault? Maybe it’s just that the paranormal romance genre is contracting? Maybe mixed reviews killed the book. Who knows.

Rowena Cherry wrote:

Whenever apologists for those who infringe copyright produce their arguments, sooner or later they cite a professor, doctor, or some institution of higher learning.

The trouble with these folks is that they are not experts in piracy or e-publishing. They are not qualified to opine upon e-book piracy, in my opinion. They live by a different set of rules. They enjoy an educational exemption.

Fair enough. Then how about some strictly publishing-industry points of view? (Well, okay, I do cite in passing one academic study, but it’s the exception that proves the rule.)

Christian,

I am not going after blind people. I never mentioned blind people. You did.

There is a perfectly good clause in the contract one signs when submitting a work to the copyright office that covers the blind. I have no problem at all with a braille version of the print version being created under the aegis of the loc. I cannot imagine anyone having a problem with that.

My issue is with sighted persons such as Pamela Bortz who scan a paperback at their own whim to create an e-book, where no e-book is licensed anywhere for anyone at all to read. There is a difference between equal rights, and preference. If an e-book is not available to anyone, it should not be available to ANYONE.

My point is that copyright infringement should not be permitted for some and not for others. How is that fair?

Christian,

Let’s think about “Reading Age” for a moment. There are certain genres which, if they were movies, would be classified as R, or X, or PG-13 etc.

Horror, Erotica, Romantica…. they are okay for adults, but if they were movies, not everyone could watch them, right?

However, under the protection of the Chafee Amendment as I understand it (important caveat there!) it is lawful for any adult to provide horror, or porn, or any degenerate, disturbing or sophisticated novel to a person of limited or childlike cognitive/reasoning abilities which impair their ability to understand a novel in normal print size without any regard of its suitability for the potential readership.

Why is there no Reading Age flag for those with reading disabilities?

In answer to the person who suggested that “sharing” is not illegal…

The copyright office says:

“Is it legal to download works from peer-to-peer networks and if not, what is the penalty for doing so?
Uploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner’s exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney’s fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights.

Whether or not a particular work is being made available under the authority of the copyright owner is a question of fact. But since any original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium (including a computer file) is protected by federal copyright law upon creation, in the absence of clear information to the contrary, most works may be assumed to be protected by federal copyright law.

Since the files distributed over peer-to-peer networks are primarily copyrighted works, there is a risk of liability for downloading material from these networks. To avoid these risks, there are currently many “authorized” services on the Internet that allow consumers to purchase copyrighted works online, whether music, ebooks, or motion pictures. By purchasing works through authorized services, consumers can avoid the risks of infringement liability and can limit their exposure to other potential risks, e.g., viruses, unexpected material, or spyware.

For more information on this issue, see the Register of Copyrights’ testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. “

Rowenna Cherry said:

“Let’s think about “Reading Age” for a moment. There are certain genres which, if they were movies, would be classified as R, or X, or PG-13 etc. Horror, Erotica, Romantica…. they are okay for adults, but if they were movies, not everyone could watch them, right? However, under the protection of the Chafee Amendment as I understand it (important caveat there!) it is lawful for any adult to provide horror, or porn, or any degenerate, disturbing or sophisticated novel to a person of limited or childlike cognitive/reasoning abilities which impair their ability to understand a novel in normal print size without any regard of its suitability for the potential readership.

Why is there no Reading Age flag for those with reading disabilities?”

The real question should be why there is no Idiot Flag for crazy nutbars like you?” Reading disabilities do NOT mean someone is not cognitive or able to think for themselves. By definition it means that people have troubles translating the written word into thought. It doesn’t mean they don’t know how to think.

Also your belief that blind people should be limited to using braille to read books is completely idiotic. Maybe one day you will be lucky enough to develop macular degeneration and find you can no longer use the central portion of your retina to read, thus becoming legally blind. Perhaps some authors will then tell you to learn braille instead of using your ears to listen or be able to use special software which lets you read from your peripheral vision.

Your rants here are now bordering on trolling. You haven’t been very good at debating here so I suggest you stop before you dig yourself deeper into the pile of verbal garbage coming from your keyboard. You must have a very good editor if you are actually managing to sell your books.

Christian,

You state :”Fact: Downloading copyrighted material without the copyright holders permission is not stealing, actually it isn’t even piracy, and it’s also not a crime.”

For those of us in America, it is a crime. Fact.

QUOTE:
“The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law that implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works. It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself. In addition, the DMCA heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet. Passed on October 12, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended Title 17 of the United States Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of the providers of on-line services for copyright infringement by their users.”

You don’t appear to have heard of OCILLA, either.

“The Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act (OCILLA) is United States federal law that creates a conditional safe harbor for online service providers (OSPs, including Internet service providers) and other Internet intermediaries by shielding them for their own acts of direct copyright infringement (when they make unauthorized copies) as well as shielding them from potential secondary liability for the infringing acts of others. OCILLA was passed as a part of the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and is sometimes referred to as the “Safe Harbor” provision or as “DMCA 512″ because it added Section 512 to Title 17 of the United States Code. By exempting Internet intermediaries from copyright infringement liability provided they follow certain rules, OCILLA attempts to strike a balance between the competing interests of copyright owners and digital users.

…..First, the OSP must “adopt and reasonably implement a policy”[2] of addressing and terminating accounts of users who are found to be “repeat infringers.”[2] Second, the OSP must accommodate and not interfere with “standard technical measures.”[3] OSPs may qualify for one or more of the Section 512 safe harbors under § 512(a)-(d), for immunity from copyright liability stemming from: transmitting [4], caching [5], storing [6], or linking [7] to infringing material. An OSP who complies with the requirements for a given safe harbor is not liable for money damages, but may still be ordered by a court to perform specific actions such as disabling access to infringing material.

Section 512(c) applies to OSPs that store infringing material. In addition to the two general requirements that OSPs comply with standard technical measures and remove repeat infringers, § 512(c) also requires that the OSP: 1) not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, 2) not be aware of the presence of infringing material or know any facts or circumstances that would make infringing material apparent, and 3) upon receiving notice from copyright owners or their agents, act expeditiously to remove the purported infringing material.”

END QUOTE.

First, MarkChan… You are awesome, Sir. I choked and almost died reading your post. I was laughing way too hard. I don’t have anything else to add on that subject.. So, in Stan Lee’s immortal words. “Nuf Said”.

Rowena, Thanks for epic “copy/paste”, you really proved my point. Notice that nowhere in that wall of text does it refer to the act of downloading or receiving unauthorized copyrighted works. It lays out that you cannot break DRM unless it’s one of the exceptions, providing services for the disabled and “jail breaking” a cell phone are the most well known. It also provides the rules which allow the internet to function. Sites that host websites, blogs and video do not have to police their users content. They are not responsible for their users actions provided they promptly respond to take down notices.

Finally, this is a great example of the point I was making in this and other threads on this subject. When authors get involved in these discussions on the internet invariably they end up coming off in a negative light, unless they react like the Bree half of Moria Rogers (who I might add is one funny and great lady, check her out on twitter).

Christian, downloading stolen copyrighted works is as illegal as uploading them although the penalties are much less.

Owning or having stolen property in your possession, be it a piece of jewelry or a digital copyrighted book, is illegal. That is common knowledge. If you read the local police reports in your paper, you’ll see people arrested for having possession of stolen property all the time.

More than a few people have been arrested and have been tried for illegally downloading music, and they’ve been charged enormous fines when found guilty. Just ask around about what happened to people in the Napster debacle to see what I mean.

The publishing industry is beginning to go after the downloaders as well as the uploaders of published works. It has taken a long time to anger the big publishers, but they are finally p*ssed enough at the wholesale theft of digital books that they are starting legal actions.

Ignorance of the law isn’t a legal defense so I suggest those of you who are so proud of not paying for books be a bit quieter online and clean out those illegal files before the FBI comes knocking on your door with a warrant for your computer.

Digital copyrighted works are property which belongs to the copyright owner who licensed the right to publishers and distributors to lease, not sell, it. When you legally download a book from Fictionwise or Amazon, you are only leasing the item, not buying it, so you can’t give away your book, nor can you resell it.

For more details, I suggest you go to my blog, http://mbyerly.blogspot.com/ and click on the copyright label. Read the article on ebooks and The First Sale Doctrine then follow the links to legalities.

Hey Christian, are you on twitter? Give me a shout sometime so I can find you! (Unless I already know you and just haven’t connected you to your user name. :D)

I’d add more, but I’m coming to terms with the fact that trying to convince authors that downloads are not always lost sales might be the only fight more futile than eradicating piracy. Lucky me, I’m stuck in the middle of both!

I don’t agree with the abusive post by MarkChan and it just makes be skips his whole comments.

Christian’s statements about the illegality of downloading is not worth reading. It is nothing more than nonsense and is essentially flaming.

I too get tired of the ranting and of the repetitive irrelevant posting against straw arguments in this thread but there are better ways to tackle them.

I had posted a response here yesterday, but it didn’t come through, so I’m going to try again, though honestly, I don’t remember exactly what I said.

First, I don’t believe that every illegally downloaded copy is a lost sale. That is irrelevant to the fact that it’s still illegal to download copyrighted material. I have no problem with people sharing a physical print copy–print copies have a limited shelf life. They can only be read so many times before they wear out (particularly in mass market which is what I’m published in.) I don’t have problems with used book stores, or libraries (I love them) or a friend loaning a well-loved book to a friend. I really liked most of what Bree had to say in the link above.

All that is completely different than pirates.

Every day I receive five or more google alerts about my books being available for illegal download. Some free, some being sold illegally. I was prompted to comment because in the last two days I’ve had 11 alerts for different uploads of my books, three sites that were selling illegal copies.

Some of those being illegally downloaded are lost sales, I surmise because of the comments on message boards of some of the big pirates who post, “I love Allison Brennan’s books. Please let me know when you have it.” Others probably download them because they love them but won’t buy them because they’re broke/live out of the country/whatever. Some would never buy them because they download one illegally, hate it, think I’m the worst author in the world.

But none of that matters. The lost sales matter on a wider scope for the industry, but most of us who are print published UNTIL RECENTLY it didn’t really impact us on a macro level.

There are no good statistics on how many books are being pirated and downloaded. We could probably figure out how many copies are being illegally uploaded, but downloaded? Much harder. Someone asked for authors to prove we’re losing money. Why? Why should we have to prove it? Some stolen books are lost sales, some aren’t, but they are still stolen books. Physical books have very little actual value, it’s the STORY that people want within the pages, and the STORY that is copyrighted. No one should be able to read my stories without going through legal channels, period. Is piracy hurting me personally? I think so, but can’t prove it because of lack of good numbers. Someone asked for author’s to share sales numbers, but we can’t prove we’ve lost sales. I do know that my e-book sales are very small compared to my print sales (still in the low single digits) and haven’t been growing at the rate of the e-book market as a whole. I know that there are a lot of copies available to illegally download. I know that my print sales and print runs have been sliding, whether that has to do with the economy or people illegally obtaining books, I don’t know to what extent. But it’s PART of the problem.

Authors who are exclusively e-published are hit disproportionally harder by piracy than those of use who are traditionally published with e-books also available. Most of my readers get their books through physical bookstores. But readers of e-books ONLY buy those author’s titles electronically, so every illegally downloaded copy hurts those authors more. A lot of the illegal copies are cloaked in sites that appear legitimate. For example, in iOffer, people will sell e-copies at “auction” with full resale rights to the buyer. WTF? That’s illegal on many levels, but no one selling on iOffer can sell resale rights.

Can we stop piracy? I doubt it. We can’t stop meth use, rape, robbery, murder, or any host of truly brutal crimes. But we can slow it down and go after first those who illegally sell pirated copies (which I think all of us here can agree with?) and then educate fans (those who already buy our books) about the importance of knowing where you’re buying, and that unless the free download comes from a legitimate site (amazon, the author’s website, the publisher’s site) it’s an illegal copy. Perhaps even having a logo that identifies legitimate places to purchase (and illegally displaying the logo constitutes a higher crime.)

I don’t have all the answers, and I don’t want to limit people’s reading choices, but as e-books become more populate with the reading public, piracy is only going to get worse and do more damage to the authors and the industry. While most people seem to discount the publishers because they’re a business and no one seems concerned about stealing from corporations, publishers have multiple authors so they are hit exponentially harder.

Regarding some of the comments about how if people are stealing the copies they don’t think the books are worth buying is ridiculous and insulting. I have no problem engaging in a debate on this subject, but I think the low blows don’t contribute to the discussion. I’m a multi-published New York Times bestselling author and I’m just as concerned about piracy as midlist authors who haven’t hit a list, or e-published authors.

Allison – my posts often get caught in the spam trap or the comment system. Write to Paul Biba the editor (email on the right hand pane —->) and he will look for it if you don’t see it on the site.

Guess I need to jump in here.

Please notice that I never said it was legal to knowing download a copyrighted work from an unauthorized source. However it is not “receiving stolen property” or a crime. There is a world of difference between a criminal act and something that is against civil law. This is somewhat nuanced so I can see how some people could misread my comments. Criminal copyright infringement involves making available copyrighted works for profit. The key part of that is “making available” not receiving or possessing.

Marilynn, if you look into most of those cases they were civil not criminal and no one was arrested. Also if you read the findings of fact in those cases the illegal act was “making available” not “receiving” or “possessing”. There have been criminal cases but those usually were about trade secrets or DRM, not downloading. Also let me be clear that I am talking about US law, the story is very different in other countries.

There are several cases regarding the First Sale Doctrine making their way through the court at the moment. They are primarily cases about software and how to interprete EULA’s. I doubt they will change established precedent that the First Sale Doctrine does not apply when there is a licensing agreement (because in those cases the customer is not buying the item, they are just licensing it’s use), but here’s to hoping.

On a personal note, I can’t recall the last time I downloaded something without paying someone for it, yet I look at the circle of people I know, mostly professionals between the ages of 35 and 70, and see that I am in the minority. Most of them download something, from using work that has to be copyrighted from youtube, or downloading movies or music from bittorent sites. These days the only times I am tempted to hunting for something it’s usually because I cannot buy it in my locale (BBC programming) or it isn’t available in my preferred format (ebooks). So usually I just email the author or producer and politely ask why they don’t want me to buy their works. It’s a little obnoxious, but I have got results with this method.

Finally I don’t think piracy (illegally selling unauthorized copyrighted works) is legal. It very clearly isn’t. I don’t think it’s moral. It very clearly isn’t. However I still think that authors should focus on creating great works, and how to make the most of these amazing times we are living in.

Allison you repeat the same claims about downloads equalling lost sales but I, like many others, don’t believe it so. There is no evidence of it. There is also no evidence of large scale downloading from pirate sites. These are criminals. There are not sources of good information. Relying on their sites to say how many files are downloaded is not very credible. Neither the Publishers or the Music Industry have ever demonstrated reliable data from a reliable source, ever.
The way to slow down piracy, of whatever level, is to do what so many others here have documented. Tackle DRM, Geo restrictions and pricing in the big sellers. Piracy and downloading will never be slowed down from the top. Publishers and the Music Industry make big noises about tackling it and get the odd judgement now and then that salves their egos and shareholders but if anyone imagines for on second that this is or will make anyone change their mind or hesitate is naive in the extreme.

Howard, I didn’t say that every illegal download was a lost sale–in fact, I specifically said it WASN’T–but that SOME were. I take this from evidence I’ve found of people looking for my books “free” and asking for the big pirate sites to post the books.

I agree with you about tackling the other issues, however pricing is not one of them. I don’t believe that e-books are priced too high for the market, and if they are, they will come down in price based on supply and demand. Stealing a book because it costs too much is no justification — just don’t read the book. There are costs associated with producing ebooks, and authors and publishers should be paid for their time as well as the actual outlay of expenses.

Geographical restrictions is a complex issue that I believe will resolve itself with time, but there are issues of international law, publishing contracts, rights, etc that need to change and it’s not going to happen overnight. I WANT my books to be available for purchase around the world. But I don’t control all of this. I control some based on who I sell my book to, but most major publishers have legally binding contracts regarding English language books so they can’t simply sell the book world-wide all the time. This is something I know very little about, aside from the fact that it’s not cut and dried. Publishers want to make money, so I believe they do exploit the rights they have to the maximum potential. I think there are better ways to protect ebooks from piracy than DRM. There are lots of good talking points and ideas and I think we as an industry of publishers, authors, and readers can come up with solutions to many of these problems. But to completely discount the threat of piracy is foolhardy because it does have a huge impact on the industry as a whole–even if individual authors are only losing a tiny bit of revenue.

Allison, I agree with you about iOffer. I absolutely wish we could find a way to separate this discussion into illegal downloading and piracy, because I think they present entirely different challenges and very different dangers.

Ebooks are a new world for many people. It is so very, very easy for a reader who thinks they’re buying a legitimate copy to get fooled into paying a pirate. And it infuriates me. I would rather those readers illegally download my books for free, because at least the money I’ll never see isn’t going to someone else.

One of my big worries is that our focus on downloading is glossing over the problem with people reselling ebooks over and over, which I think is a far greater danger to authors of all types.

Can an ordinary reader weigh in on this discussion? I recognize that piracy is a problem, but the extent of the problem is definitely still in question. How do you authors KNOW how many sales you are losing? I’m not disputing that you may be losing sales, but how do you know how many? I’m finding it hard to believe that your work is wildly popular among the pirating community but of little to no interest to people like me who actually buy ebooks. Have you conducted surveys of those who have illegally downloaded your books to find out what their motivations were? The idea that not every download represents a “lost sale” is one that has to be considered because there is anecdotal data to support it (from what I can determine, there is no solid hard data to prove anything in the piracy world, and I speak as someone with a background in scientific research). So, yeah, unfortunately, when you blame piracy because your book has anemic sales, I, as a reader, get a little suspicious about how good your book really is. I’m not justifying piracy, just stating how I’m receiving your arguements about the extent to which you are being affected.

Secondly, be careful about how your attitude towards piracy affects your relationship with your paying fans. Stephanie Meyer, already mentioned in this discussion, lost me as a fan when she decided it was a good idea to punish ALL of her fans just because her work was loose on the internet. Authors need to respect their fans just as the fans need to respect authors.

Third, if pirates are flocking to bittorrent sites to download your work, but almost completely ignoring your website, you have a major problem with your website. People like me who are actually fans of authors love to visit the author’s website IF it is a worthwhile experience. By which I mean frequently updated with interesting content. Two outstanding websites IMO are Karen Chance’s “Take a Chance” website and Scott Nicholson’s “Haunted Computer” site.

Sorry if I’ve offended any of you authors, but this is how at least one fan sees these discussions.

Kathleen, I appreciate your comments and you’re right–we have no idea how many lost sales there are. There is no way to poll people who illegally download books. How? At what cost? And I don’t think the pirating community cares much about whose books they post–most of the torrent sites put up everything they can get their hands on.

There was one report done by a research company re: piracy and I searched but couldn’t find it immediately. It said something like the authors who are truly losing sales are the mega authors like Nora Roberts, John Grisham, et. al. because books by bestselling novelists are the most in demand by readers. Which makes sense because they are bestselling novelists. I don’t know how much I’m being affected, but to me that doesn’t truly matter as much as if people like my books, I’d like to them to get the book through legitimate means. They can borrow from a library or friend that doesn’t bother me. And I don’t blame piracy on “anemic” sales because my sales are pretty good. I do believe that some of the slide in sales is because of piracy, but I’m still selling in numbers that hit the NYT list.

Most people I broach this subject with will state things like Nora Roberts or John Grisham don’t need any more money so they’re not hurting anyone by illegally downloading books. Or publishers are evil corporation so they don’t care if they’re stealing from them. I’m not saying this is your argument, but it is definitely one that comes up in most conversations.

I don’t sell my books off my website, so I don’t see how whether my website is “good” or not matters to whether people seek out my books for illegal downloads. I do love Scott Nicholson’s Haunted Computer website–I’ve been there many times and love his articles.

I love my fans. I have offered free reads. My publisher has given away free books–when KILLING FEAR went on sale, my publisher gave away 1000 copies of my debut novel to the first people who sent in the coupon on the back. My publisher has done other giveaways too–buy one, get one free, etc. I have personally given away over 2,000 books–at my expense to purchase and ship–to writers conferences, charity auctions, through my newsletter and facebook and twitter. I believe that the best way to sell my books is to give away books. That is my choice. I don’t like that choice being taken way from me. Because once you get one book for free illegally, it’s much easier to keep doing it.

“I’m finding it hard to believe that your work is wildly popular among the pirating community but of little to no interest to people like me who actually buy ebooks.”

Excellent point, Kathleen. I think most people will agree that the majority of readers of ebooks do it the legal way (no, I can’t prove this but I’ve never seen any statement to the contrary). So if an author’s sales are going down, they are decreasing with BOTH pirates and legal buyers as well. If sales have plateaued, it means that author is not picking up new *legal* buyers, either. So, yes, failing authors might blame some of it on pirates, but must also address why the larger group of legit buyers isn’t committing.

I thought I’d said my peace, but apparently ignorance still abounds.

Copyright theft IS illeagal. It’s a crime punishable by 5 years in jail and a $250,000 fine. A criminal copyright lawyer is working on a class action lawsuit as we speak. (Word to the wise!)

People HAVE gone to jail for epiracy. A guy in France and another in Sweden were big offenders and go what was coming to them.

For the rest of you, just because you’re not getting caught (yet) doen’t mean what you’re doing isn’t illegal! You ARE breaking copyright laws. If you have any doubt, allow me to publish the link where authors can report theft of their property. And by the way, the FBI has offices in many foreign countries.

Report Internet crime here: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
Now stop justifying your criminal behavior and pay for the entertainment you rip off! We provide readers/listeners/viewers with our talent and time, and deserve to be paid for it.

Sales of books are down across the board, with few exceptions. Most publishers are saying that most authors–including bestsellers–are down 30+% in sales. Most of that is not due to piracy. That’s because of the economy, more people borrowing, more people sharing, buying from used book stores, etc. And yes, some of it to piracy. I think it’s erroneous to say that reduced sales are only because authors are writing inferior books. Book sales have been on a steady decline across the board because entertainment has shifted. There are still readers, of course, and readers tend to read A LOT. I am a huge reader as well as a writer.

There are many many good reasons why sales are down. Leisure time has changed enormously, with so many competing attractions for people’s time – computer games, computer browsing among them.

I find it offensive that we the members and visitors to Teleread are repeatedly accused of being serial pirators by vitriolic uninformed blow ins.

Allison all of the previous page of comments have suddenly disappeared on my computer so I cannot copy paste your quotation. You did in fact make that claim when referring to authors writing for eBooks only. However I admit I cannot show evidence of it, I apols. Hopefully whatever glitch is messing with Teleread will be fixed soon. This is not the first thread where a whole page of comments has disappeared.

Howard, I didn’t accuse anyone here of being a serial pirate, nor did I cast blame on any individual or website (except the mention of iOffer which allows the selling of illegal ebooks.) In fact, I made the same point you did that sales are down for a variety of reasons and piracy is certainly not the only factor–and probably not the major factor. I’ve thought my comments were fair and polite and contributing to the conversation as a whole, not vitriolic. I truly believe that this is a worthwhile discussion, but it’s become like religion–one of those topics where people become so fanatical that there’s no having a civil conversation anymore. Can’t we respectfully disagree on certain points? And find areas where we do agree, such as the selling of pirated ebooks?

Dammit …. I am completely wrong and embarrassed Allison – I APOLOGISE – I was quite confused by the missing comments on this thread but that is not an excuse …. I transposed your name with the other poster Ashlyn below … Please forgive me.

This is the post I MEANT to refer to:

Ashlyn Chase wrote above:
“For the rest of you, just because you’re not getting caught (yet) doen’t mean what you’re doing isn’t illegal! You ARE breaking copyright laws. If you have any doubt, allow me to publish the link where authors can report theft of their property. And by the way, the FBI has offices in many foreign countries … Now stop justifying your criminal behavior and pay for the entertainment you rip off! We provide readers/listeners/viewers with our talent and time, and deserve to be paid for it.”

No hard feelings! 🙂

Pirating e-books does violate copyright law, is illegal, and does hurt sales and hurts authors as it does reduce their pay. How can it not? Here’s the simple evidence:
I and almost all the authors I know work off of contracts with publishers. In that contract is a percentage the publisher pays me for each sale of my book, let’s say 40%. It is the only way I am paid. When you buy one of my books from one of my publishers or from a distributor they are doing business with (like Amazon, Fictionwise, Borders online, Barnes and Nobles online etc) then after the publisher gets paid, I get a royalty check depending on the terms in the contract (usually every month are every quarter). If you don’t buy the book from my publisher or a legitimate distributor but instead get it free, I don’t get paid for that book at all. Piracy leaves me and other authors with less income from writing. It’s that simple. 40% of 3.99 isn’t’ very much, but it’s better than nothing and piracy leaves me with nothing from those books. Piracy hurts authors , how can it not hurt authors. If you love books by a certain author or authors, don’t you want them to keep writing more books for you? Pirating e-books keeps authors from their earned royalties. I and other writers have children to support, and rent or mortgage payments, light bills, phone bills, and the need to eat like all other working people. Authors have the right to the money they earn as much as you have a right to the money you earn. Piracy takes away from my and other authors pay checks. It’s easy to understand. Piracy does hurt sales. Privacy does hurt authors. Piracy is illegal. Piracy is wrong. There is absolutely no doubt about it.

Pirating e-books does violate copyright law, is illegal, and does hurt sales and hurts authors as it does reduce their pay. How can it not? Here’s the simple evidence:
I and almost all the authors I know work off of contracts with publishers. In that contract is a percentage the publisher pays me for each sale of my book, let’s say 40%. It is the only way I am paid. When you buy one of my books from one of my publishers or from a distributor they are doing business with (like Amazon, Fictionwise, Borders online, Barnes and Nobles online etc) then after the publisher gets paid, I get a royalty check depending on the terms in the contract (usually every month or every quarter). If you don’t buy the book from my publisher or a legitimate distributor but instead get it free, I don’t get paid for that book at all. Piracy leaves me and other authors with less income from writing. It’s that simple. 40% of 3.99 isn’t’ very much, but it’s better than nothing and piracy leaves me with nothing from those books. Piracy hurts authors , how can it not hurt authors. If you love books by a certain author or authors, don’t you want them to keep writing more books for you? Pirating e-books keeps authors from their earned royalties. I and other writers have children to support, and rent or mortgage payments, light bills, phone bills, and the need to eat like all other working people. Authors have the right to the money they earn as much as you have a right to the money you earn. Piracy takes away from my and other authors pay checks. It’s easy to understand. Piracy does hurt sales. Piracy does hurt authors. Piracy is illegal. Piracy is wrong. There is absolutely no doubt about it.

Cornelia Amiri said: Piracy hurts authors , how can it not hurt authors.

For the sake of argument, imagine a shoe store was going out of business and threw every pair of shoes in their store out into the parking lot. Total free for all. People who don’t care about shoes might pick up a pair while on their way to the grocery store because–hey! Free shoes! Okay, maybe they’re neon pink, and don’t go with anything else they own–but they’re free! Why not?

Those same people might have continued on to the grocery store to get milk and never have walked into the shoe store. Never have made a purchase, and certainly never have spent their money on neon pink shoes they’ll probably never wear.

No, this is not all illegal downloaders. But some probably grab the pink shoes because it doesn’t cost them anything. And maybe they’ll throw them in the back of their closet and never look at them again. I have no doubts that my books are currently resting, unread, on the harddrives of hundreds of people who don’t really like paranormal romance but figure maybe they’ll try it some day. They were never going to pay for my book. 40% of zero is zero. Just like 0% of zero.

Does it make me think they’re not jerks? No, I still think it’s bratty, entitled behavior. But I don’t think they all cost me sales. And I’m an ebook only author with no print sales* or advances to bolster me, so I’m pretty darn invested in my ebook sales. I’m still not going to waste my time and emotional reserves worrying about entitled people who were never planning on paying me to begin with.

Some downloads hurt some authors. This is undoubtedly true. I think, though, if we resist the tendency toward hyperbole and broad generalizations, this conversation can go a lot more smoothly. When authors lead with something that’s demonstrably impossible to prove, no one feels the need to listen to anything else we have to say, no matter how valid it might be.

(*Many of my books do go to print, but ebook sales account for 98% of my royalties.)

@Cornelia Amiri:

Let’s go through this again.

Copyright infringement is wrong. Most of us agree on that. However, you shouldn’t cut off your nose (DRM) to spite your face (people who want the material but don’t pay for it).

Let’s look at some common scenarios.

The Hoarder downloads a book, but never reads it. He simply grabbed it because he could. Loss to author? Zero.

The Sampler downloads a book, reads some of it, and then decides to buy it. Loss to author? Zero.

The Fanatic downloads a book, reads it, and doesn’t pay for it. However, it increases their taste for books and they start buying more than they otherwise would have because of the illegally obtained content. Loss to author? Definitely. However, the marketplace as a whole is stronger.

The Desperate downloads a book because it isn’t available for their market (geographic restrictions) or device (including delayed introductions for the impatient). Loss to author? In the short term no, but it may harmful to the author in the longer term if the book would have eventually been made available.

The Family purchases a book and then, technical restrictions allowing, shares it amongst themselves. Loss to author? Yes, but most people wouldn’t consider this “piracy”.

The Pirate downloads a book and reads it due to a sense of entitlement/stick it the big publisher/whatever. Loss to author? Unfortunately, yes.

So you have all of the above to deal with and more. And while you are busy fighting the, I believe, tiny segment of the market that is costing you sales, you are frustrating the majority of the legitimate customers (can’t switch book readers, can’t use text-to-speech, can’t correct formatting mistakes, lose access to purchased books, etc.) which is bad for the customer and ultimately bad for the marketplace.

The reason, in short, we get frustrated with these piracy debates is that we are the collateral damage in this silly war. Treat your customers with respect (as Baen, O’Reilly, and Packt do), and you’ll stop perceiving what many see as sympathy for casual “pirates”. Instead, you’ll realize that it is really animosity towards poor customer service.

Hey, Brenna!

Here’s some good news for a change.
http://news.avn.com/articles/ICE-Freezes-Numerous-Torrent-Sites-418406.html

My only sadness is that book publishing seems to be lagging way behind music and knock-offs.

Please send this to your publishers and ask them to request help from ICE. I did.

Ash

I think only one of those sites is actually a torrent one – the rest are just selling knock-offs of various items. The seizures are done using current law, not COICA, and that might not even make it info effect.

By the way, though I haven’t posted in a while, I have been following the discussion. So on that note – thank you Allison Brennan for trying to replying to my questions earlier in such detail. I think it’s important that we don’t reduce the discussion to simply morality (stealing is wrong), but instead look at the entire picture of how piracy affects everything. Only through understanding what’s going on is it possible to even remotely affect the thoughts of readers, pirates and non-pirates alike.

To me, it’s very simple. You will NEVER police illegal downloads, just as no one can stem the tide of immoral or illegal behavior everywhere. Most people do the right thing. Those are your readers/customers/friends. You can spend a ton of futile energy fighting the tiny tiny fraction of people who will never buy your books, or your can spend more of your energy serving your readers and connecting with your friends.

if you look at illegal publishing, how about Google and Google Books, who have layers of legal obfuscation to keep you from complaining about their posting books illegally on the Internet. Or how about all the “legitimate” publishers who don’t pay their authors (which vilates the contract and therefore is illegal)?

Thanks for the shout-out, Kathleen. We’re working on a site redesign int he next few weeks to serve our friends better.

Scott Nicholson
http://www.hauntedcomputer.com

Hi Scott. As an ordinary reader and not someone from within the Publishing world, I wonder if you mind me making a few comments on your web site ? There is no where else to comment as we don’t have forums yet 🙁
I was wondering why it’s called “Haunted Computer Books” I almost clicked away from it the second I arrived because I thought it was computer manuals…

Also, and I find this on most book retailing sites, why does everyone create book listings based on their covers ? I don’t understand it as a reader.
If I am looking for a best seller, or a book from a well known author, I can understand it to a certain extent. But as a reader looking for a new book and new authors I find it a distraction. Even in this site which is all of one writer. What I really want to get to quickly is a thumbnail description of the book and the story. Instead I have to visit the page for each book to get that. I would love to find a book selling site where I can quickly enter a listing created in panels that incorporate a tiny thumbnail of the cover, the writer’s name and a summary of the story/style. At the top I could then select a genre and be presented with such a listing and scroll down though it. Clicking on a specific book would lead me to a more full page devoted to that book and a buying option. I would also like a ‘random’ genre choice which would mix up books of mixed genres so that I could be surprised with something I wouldn’t ordinarily look for.

Just my view 🙂